Breeding to create Blue Pigeon Blood Discus

[DiscusDrew]

Im interested in how I should breed and what pairs to create to ultimately come into the blue pigeon blood discus. I find them particularly beautiful and was wondering how I may be able to accomplish this feat. I do not know if the blue pigeon blood is a dominant gene and as such do not know how simple it would be to accomplish, I hope to get some good feedback !!!

[ockyra215]

Hmm well your gonna need a few years probably about ten. And your gonna need some really good clean pigeon stock and and then some really blue stock like bluediamonds. And then do selective line breeding and see what you get. Hans offers Stendker Blue Pigeon Discus amd I also think Lawrence Soon (luckytropical) offers a blue pigeon. They are out there I am prettty sure Hans has a pair of blue pigeons for sale.

[DiscusOnly]

Im interested in how I should breed and what pairs to create to ultimately come into the blue pigeon blood discus. I find them particularly beautiful and was wondering how I may be able to accomplish this feat. I do not know if the blue pigeon blood is a dominant gene and as such do not know how simple it would be to accomplish, I hope to get some good feedback !!!

Start with buying some clean blue pigeon adult.

[Skip]

Drew.. are you wanting to Cross a BLUE (NON PIGEON BLOOD) fisih with a Pigeon BLood?

[DiscusDrew]

Well I imagine that is how the strain got its start to begin with, and since they are both dominant genes there should be no reason it would take 10 years of linebreeding. That said, it may be simpler to just breed existing blue pigeon's. The reason I brought up the prospect to begin with is that I ended up with a very very good quality blue diamond pairing up with a pigeon blood, the pigeon blood wouldnt have been my first choice however he is still a beautiful fish and may ultimately lead down the line im desiring. So we shall see, I may just allow the pair to do its thing and determine my course as I see the results but then again obviously immediate satisfaction arises from buying a pair.... but wheres the education and growth in that right?....

[Skip]

the F1 Fry will be heavy peppered.. just a little FYI>.

[ockyra215]

Thats where the line breeding would come into play to breed out the peppering. Still if you have a bluediamond and a good clean blue pigeon experiment with them and see what you get.Thats the great thing about this hobby the endless possibility. Good luck with them I am curious to see your results!

[DiscusDrew]

I'll be sure to post when they are fully matured and breeding effectively. Should I expect that peppering to show up again even though its already been bred out of my existing pigeon? I know past heritage can show its ugly horns but i'm just curious. I have a blue pigeon as well, I wish the stubborn basterd would have picked her as his mate haha, but alas that is where our hands seem to be tied

[ockyra215]

Force pair them put them both in a 20 gallon together.Are you sure you have a male
and female blue pigeon? The blue diamond will bring pepper back to the mix. If I am not mistaken. Other folks may have a better idea on this. JMO

[DiscusDrew]

That would make sense given origin of the line. No I do not have a pair of blue pigeon, I have a confirmed male blue diamond, and a confirmed female blue pigeon. Not sure what would come of their pairing versus blue diamond with regular pigeon

[DiscusOnly]

Well I imagine that is how the strain got its start to begin with, and since they are both dominant genes there should be no reason it would take 10 years of linebreeding. That said, it may be simpler to just breed existing blue pigeon's. The reason I brought up the prospect to begin with is that I ended up with a very very good quality blue diamond pairing up with a pigeon blood, the pigeon blood wouldnt have been my first choice however he is still a beautiful fish and may ultimately lead down the line im desiring. So we shall see, I may just allow the pair to do its thing and determine my course as I see the results but then again obviously immediate satisfaction arises from buying a pair.... but wheres the education and growth in that right?....

Well breed the two and observe the offsprings over the next 2 years. Breed the cleanest offspring and repeat..

It ain't easy breeding your own F1. Quite a few on here have done it into F2, F3, etc.. but they have been in the hobby for a very long time.

[DiscusOnly]

That would make sense given origin of the line. No I do not have a pair of blue pigeon, I have a confirmed male blue diamond, and a confirmed female blue pigeon. Not sure what would come of their pairing versus blue diamond with regular pigeon

In that case, get a confirmed clean male blue pigeon. You just saved yourself 2 years.

[nc0gnet0]

I have yet to see a blue checkerboard pigeon. As for line breeding the "pepper" out of the line, you would have to be carefull not to also remove the Pb gene in the process. And even that is assuming that you actually got some blue offspring in the F1.

[DiscusDrew]

no checkerboard, blue pigeon blood discus, check Hans stedenker line.

[DiscusOnly]

Is this what your refer to as blue PB?

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu341/DiscusOnly/Home%20grown%20timeline/photobucket-9172-1335579605629.jpg

[DiscusDrew]

Thats my beautiful guy right there :) I know that unforunately we see all kinds of names and misnomers as a result of domestic breeding. Hell Ive seen very similar strains that are almost identical that are simply called pigeon bloods (very clean pigeons mind you).

[TNT77]

If you want to breed them why don't you save years worth of work and money and just buy a pair from Hans.

[DiscusOnly]

This was mom.

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu341/DiscusOnly/Home%20grown%20timeline/DSC_0069.jpg

This was dad

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu341/DiscusOnly/Home%20grown%20timeline/DSC_0061.jpg

Close up of the blue in the fin.

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu341/DiscusOnly/Home%20grown%20timeline/photobucket-7097-1335580019974.jpg

[DiscusDrew]

Those were the perfect two to mix to get the type of fish im looking to produce. And I just so happened to have a pair that could eventually come to the blue pigeon strain, thats why I was asking. At this point im looking at finding a male blue pigeon to put with my female so I can establish a good batch easily.

[DiscusOnly]

His sibling pair that I am working on. Different striatiaon, more checkerboard.

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu341/DiscusOnly/Home%20grown%20timeline/photobucket-1013-1335584413787.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu341/DiscusOnly/Home%20grown%20timeline/photobucket-1288-1335584283684.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu341/DiscusOnly/Home%20grown%20timeline/photobucket-1276-1335584372792.jpg

[DiscusOnly]

Those were the perfect two to mix to get the type of fish im looking to produce. And I just so happened to have a pair that could eventually come to the blue pigeon strain, thats why I was asking. At this point im looking at finding a male blue pigeon to put with my female so I can establish a good batch easily.

The red marlboro brought more red and striation to the offspring while the blue from the female was passed along as well.

I got at least 6 female laying spawning but can't get any of the male to do their job. They just turned 2 years. That's why I mentioned earlier that you will save yourself 2 years if you just start out with two blue PB.

[TNT77]

Those were the perfect two to mix to get the type of fish im looking to produce. And I just so happened to have a pair that could eventually come to the blue pigeon strain, thats why I was asking. At this point im looking at finding a male blue pigeon to put with my female so I can establish a good batch easily.
My guess is that you will still have a mixed batch of offspring even with a blue pigeon male as the female is a cross between different pb strains.

[DiscusDrew]

Those two look very good as well, I like the first group a ton because I appreciate more of the white/blue base color with very defined but sporadic red markings. If buy that pair off of you in a heartbeat ;)

[DiscusOnly]

Those two look very good as well, I like the first group a ton because I appreciate more of the white/blue base color with very defined but sporadic red markings. If buy that pair off of you in a heartbeat ;)

To get this one from my original pair, I only have 3 out of about 40 that I kept. This is why I encourage you to start out with a pair that has the look you want.

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu341/DiscusOnly/Home%20grown%20timeline/photobucket-7097-1335580019974.jpg

[nc0gnet0]

Just curious, this is what you refer to as a "blue" pigeon blood?

Rick

[Eddie]

These are all standard pigeon bloods, blue pigeon would be a trade name for a more white pigeon with striations.

[roundfishross]

yeah, I was thinking he meant mercurys

[DiscusDrew]

Sorry for any confusion, I know that sometimes our discus names can almost be ambiguous as we tend to see different names and misnomers as a result of domestic breeding. Like he said the pics above by some would be considered a blue pigeon, though truly its just a different (beautiful I might add) version of our classic pigeon blood.

[nc0gnet0]

So are the pictures above what you are trying to achieve, or is it just what you expect to get out of what you have to work with? If you want a orange checkerboard pigeon with some blue highlghts in the finnage then I suggest working with either a mercury or a dark angel paired with an orange pigeon blood of your choosing (perferably a solid).

If you are trying to create what I would consider to be a true blue pigeon blood, one that has a pattern like the ones above except the blue is orange, good luck, too date I have yet to see one. If it is just simply a blue PB your after you can get either a dark angel or a mercury.


Rick

[mlov1022]

His sibling pair that I am working on. Different striatiaon, more checkerboard.

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu341/DiscusOnly/Home%20grown%20timeline/photobucket-1013-1335584413787.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu341/DiscusOnly/Home%20grown%20timeline/photobucket-1288-1335584283684.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu341/DiscusOnly/Home%20grown%20timeline/photobucket-1276-1335584372792.jpgVan, they really matured nicely.

[nc0gnet0]

it goes to show you there are more than one means to an end. For example:

http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/nc0gnet0/use4.jpg

I really like that white one in post #18

Rick