sick discus

[Dilux]

So I have a discus that has slowly shyed away from eating. I bought 6 thought to be healthy discus from a local breeder. The white butterfly has not grown much and usually spends time in the back of the tank hiding behind plants. My other 3 discus are healthy eaters and but one has a little cloudy eyes. The white fish I am most concerned about has white stringy poop and is not growing and is emaciated.

I noticed other electric dream discus has bottom fins that look like they have cotton on the ends (thinking fin rot). Hard to say where the problems started because I bought a ton of plants and then the discus. I have not treated with any meds yet. ABout to treat with Metroplex for the next 7 days for the possibility of flagellates. From reading forums I should QT the white butterfly and keep the others in the tank. I'm worried that the others could be exposed and thinking I should treat the whole tank but I also don't want to kill off my plants. Hmmmm what to do? I took a big step in getting the discus and love the fish; however there is a mean learning curve and a lot of information to digest.

I have a 55 gal planted tank with 6 5'' discus. with co2 regulator that runs for 9hrs in the day time and turns off at night. I was wondering if my sponge filter not running for 9 hrs is causing hydrogen sulfide in the filter due to not running, just a thought. However others seem to use this method for plant growth. I also have a 220 Marineland canister filter running continuously.
WC 50% 2 times per week, tank has been running for a little over 2 months. I don't age my water which is another issue I have been worrying about. I get water from the sink and use an inline sedimentary filter along with a de chlorinator filter from bulkreefsupply. I was told that will remove the chlorine and I contacted my water treatment center and my water does not contain chloroamines. I was wondering if I should still age my water and aeriate the water along with a water heater.
Temp 84-85; ph 7.8; ammonia 0 always; nitrite has been 0 up til last night it was next lvl up .5; nitrates 0; city water which is hard gh 300 kh 150

No new fish added, I think it is something from day 1 and it has just manifested. 3 of my fish are growing a ton, the 2 white discus have slowly been bullied to the back of the tank and they just seem weaker and definitely have not grown. The look skinny with big eyes. any help would be great, I have been searching for info and answer and maybe I need to just pick something and start treating. The water change and waiting it out is not working.
Thanks
D.

[DiscusDrew]

Between not aging your water and only using your CO2 regulator 9 hours a day isnt it possible your getting Ph swings? Discus are all about consistency and your right there is a very steep learning curve. For now I would increase W/C to 50% a day if at all possible, clean clear water is usually a beautiful solution. That said, I would test your water Ph and other perameters straight out of the tap, and compare them again the Ph and other perameters after 24 hours in the tank with airation and heat. That will allow us to find out if a Ph swing could be causing a constant stress which could lead to any number of problems as a result. I would hold off medication until theres an obvious and clear problem to treat, eliminate water being the issue first. JMO

[DiscusDrew]

White stringy poop can potentially be a number of things (or nothing) but like I said, IMO I would rule out water first, otherwise you may fix the poop and get them eating then just have the same problem come right back around because they are still stressed.

[TURQ64]

I've been generally absent on these types as of late, but due to your location, I'll bite...I'm familiar with many breeders in your area, and a few importers. Since you didn't name any names, I can't speak for any knowledge of pedigrees nor growout conditions. Most of central Mpls. uses the Mississippi, whith just chlorine, so I'm less suspect of the water, so I'm thinking that you should be running sponge bio filtration at all times. Otherwise, you'll see the spike in nitrites, a bad thing...skinny doesn't happen quickly, so a possible flagellate issue may be present...I would be aging your water..Most posts here contain non aged water..I'm no rocket scientist, but I age everything, even my RO..My best suggestion would be to look up someone from the Frostbite Falls Discus Club, as they can give you close up answers right from your neighborhood..Try willie, or about any of their members on the MFK local forum...Gary

[DiscusDrew]

Good news is if it is flagellates are very common and very easy to treat, I still believe raising discus juvies as a bare minimum the water change regimen should be increased, and as both of us have said, aging water can always be a good idea.

[strawberryblonde]

Ok, so one has cloudy eyes, one has cottony growth on his pectoral fins, one is emaciated and pooping white and one is hiding in the back of the tank, right?

First thing I'd do if it was me is turn off the co2 and turn on the sponge filter 24/7. Your plants won't die without the co2 over the next few weeks. Next thing I'd do is change the water and siphon out just as much crap as possible from the substrate every single day for that same few weeks.

Other than that, how often do you clean the canister filter and sponge filter? They can build up a whole lotta gunk in a big hurry and will add to water quality issues. I clean my filters every Saturday without fail and am always amazed at how much new crap goes down the drain...ewwwww.

You won't see immediate changes with the increased water changes and filtration, as well as aeration of the water column, but if that's the problem, you'll see improvement slowly over the course of 2-3 weeks.

The way I see it, it's a choice between lush plants or healthy discus at this point. Once the pH has stabilized, the water quality is up and all possible gunk is off the bottom and out of the filters you'll be able to tell whether there is an actual illness that needs to be treated as well.

[Dilux]

Everyone thank you soo much for the info. I feel supported and have made some decisions based on your responses from my post. I will turn off C02 for a couple of weeks and run my sponge filter 24/7. I squeeze out the sponge filter 2x per week in a 5 gal. bucket with clean tank water. After cleaning sponge the water is always pretty dirty afterwards and that is only after 15hrs a day. The canister filter gets cleaned once per week (mechanical filter part) I was also reading in the forums it is a good idea to put a pre-filter on the intake portion. I am also going to buy a food grade 55 gal drum to age my filtered water and throw in a aeration device along with a heater.

I did check my pH from the tap which to my surprise was actually a lot more acidic than I expected. Right out of the tap I was rocking 7.6 and my aged water was 8.2 I thought that was a significant gap which would cause pH swings = not good. So conclusion aged water. Is it okay to pump this aged water with a submersible
sump pump like one a Home Depot or do you have to be concerned with the pump rusting and getting into your water. Looking for a good solution for a good price.

I really believe 1 of my discus could have flagellates and you said it is easy to treat. Do you treat with Metroplex? and if I decide to treat would I just put the medicine in my show tank of should I qt the 1 discus that I believe is infected. I read I should treat 400mg/10gal so with a 55 gal I should treat with 2000mg - 2200. Thoughts on this? And will Metroplex hurt my plants at all.

Thanks
D.

[DiscusDrew]

I don't do plants personally but I can speak to the metro. Your dose is correct but can be a little lower, though it should be at LEAST 300Mg/gal in my opinion. Since metro is a very easy drug that does not generally induce stress, I would say it is very safe and possibly beneficial to treat your whole group. That said, I would do NOTHING until you set up an aging system. I had the same Ph swings you are having exactly, some problems as a result were all fixed by aging my water. Get a solid (oil free) sump pump. I use a craftsman professional sump pump from Sears which worlds great, but I don't leave it in the aging water either, I remove it and bag it after every use. The eheim pumps are the best and completely safe all around but are pricey and at the time I needed a solution fast. Also note that after you start aging your water if you still treat with metro in your main tank its kinda pricey, you can do it in a QT tank for fat less. Hope that helps my friend.

[Eddie]

Treating in a community tank is generally not an effective mnethod, plus you'll be wasting so much of the med. Best to treat the affected fish in a hospital/treatment tank.

[Dilux]

I am getting setup for aging water just ordered last of my supplies and should be set up by the end of the week. I also should be set up for my 20gal qt tank to treat fish but now plural. So interesting how people say that discus will tell you when they are sick. My blue diamond used to be up in the front of the tank pushing the other discus during feedings. Last couple of days he has been hiding among the plants and this evening I saw him pooping that dreaded white cottony poop. Damn. So I am debating if I should just treat the whole 55gal.; because I have seen the other fish eat that white poop and I am worried about it spreading to the rest of the fish. Once I figure out how to actually put pictures on this forum I will post so you guys can see the fish. Thanks again for input and hopefully I will get back on track and catch up with this learning curve. I am trying to hold back on daily water changes til I get the aged water system going, because I don't want to exacerbate the problem with pH swings.

thanks and will keep you posted,
D.

[DiscusDrew]

Get the aging set up first, good job turning off the co2 regulator, then depending on what medications you plan to use I would agree with treating the whole tank. If your thinking prazi and metro I would potentially recommend it but water comes first. Nothing should be done until then IMO. Good to hear someone listening to advice, you're going to be very happy that you did.

[Dilux]

Thanks everyone. Drew so 2 batches of aged water and I think the discus are loving it. Over the last 2 months without the aged water they seemed to breathe heavy and looked stressed glad they toughed through it. Now with the CO2 off for the last week+ plants are still growing and all the discus have fins up and the small one is even fighting for food again, :) Eddie I liked your thought on qt but I was worried about other fish being affected so I decided to treat the whole tank with metro flakes. I figured I will try this first and if the problem persist I can take out affected discus and qt. This way they all get a chance to eat medicated food which I believe they have and did because all of my fish seem to be doing a lot better. I think the water being aged made a big difference.

Question, I know I do not have Chloramines in my water because I talked to the municipal water treatment plant's manager. So can I just take water from the sink and age it for 24hr with aeriation and heat. And then should be good to go. I would you still recommend running water through sedimentary filter and chlorine filter via inline? Thanks fellas appreciate the help.

[Skip]

Question, I know I do not have Chloramines in my water because I talked to the municipal water treatment plant's manager. .

you should test yourself.. or take it to LFS>> just to be sure..