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View Full Version : Three new discus, two died one not doing well



David1972
05-29-2012, 09:51 AM
I've spoken with a number of you in another thread and was asked to fill out this questionaire so here goes:

Please complete the questionnaire if your fish are sick (copy and paste)

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

I got three new discus, (already had 5 small 1.25" in 50 gallon). I added each of my fish with the exception of 4 one at a time without QT. I got three last week from a person who breeds them. I acclimated them via drip method to my tank. Poked holes in the bags after 20 min of acclimation and then another 20 mins with some of my tank water through the holes in the bags. I think this is called the drip method. From the day I put them in to now they have not eaten. I expected a couple of days they would not eat but they did not eat at all. Two died already one is hanging on barely.



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

The last fish of the three is living but hiding and isolating itself from the others. It is always facing away from the front of the tank not eating. I've tried different foods but nothing. It almost looks depressed and sad sometimes facing down. There is not one sign of any of the sypmtoms above or any indication of parasites, wounds and so on......





3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

None it was recommended that I don't since I cannot pin point the problem but I think it is stress.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

50 gallons, there were five small 1.25-2.00 inch in there already. Tank was cycled a month with no fish, used bacteria to seed the new canister filter. I waited one month before the water peramiters were showing that the tank was cycled. I put two tetras in there to see if everything was alright. That was back in March.

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water? Tank has been running since March when I first started. I waited one month before the tank cycled completely. I change 25-30 gallons of water every other day from water that I age one day and pretreat with Seachem "Prime" in a 25 gallon empty tank that I have a HOB filter running. I heat the water to 87 degrees in the 20 gallon tank. I add a little Discus Buffer to reduce the pH from 7.4-6.6 but have been slowly reducing Discus Buffer to acclimate my system to 6.8-7.0.



6 Parameters and water source;

- temp __82-87___

- ph __6.6___

- ammonia reading _0.0___

- nitrite reading __0.0__

- nitrate reading __0-.20ppm__

- well water _No___

- municipal water _Yes___

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

Just those three.

TURQ64
05-29-2012, 10:31 AM
Is the tank BB?..are the Discus that were there 'already' affected?...No QT on the 3 new?....forget the buffer, it may be contributing to the issues. Nothing wrong with the ph.
Fish generally don't die from lack of food in one week..Probably acclimation issues..I'm a 'plop and drop' guy, but that isn't the normal drip method...

DiscusDrew
05-29-2012, 02:16 PM
What you described as introduction I have never heard of, the drip method involves putting them in a bucket and using an air line with knots tied in it to slowly drip tank water into the bucket with the new fish. Your method it sounds like you put the shipping water or LFS water into your tank which should never be done. That said my main suspect that I would most deffinitely fix is stopping using the buffer. That will raise the Ph which is just fine and does not require a slow acclimation for the fish so just get rid of it. I would keep up on water changes and wipe down the tank, at this point nothing seems diagnosable, but I guarantee buffer is only compounding any existing problem. Use the stable aged water from your tap, regardless of perameters.

P.S.- Unless your going from a high Ph to a low Ph I would always recommend the "plop and drop" method as it is far easier on the fish. Use the drip method if the ph is going lower. But regardless I would get away from your method. IMO

DiscusDrew
05-29-2012, 02:17 PM
And im stating the obvious so I dont mean it rude at all, but in the future make sure to QT new fish, who knows it could have been the existing fish transfering pathogens to the new fish or it could be the new fish doing exactly the opposite, but either way a proper QT knocks out an awful lot of problems.

David1972
05-29-2012, 06:23 PM
Thanks I'll keep that in mind next time if I decide to add more fish.

David1972
06-01-2012, 04:19 PM
I was reading that Discus prefer pH of 6.4-6.8 but I should have added "in the wild". Seems that most discus can tolerate 7.0. My PH is between 7.0 and 7.2 out of the tape and was using discus buffer to lower to 6.4-6.8. I stopped that because Hans recommended it with his fish.

nabilbb
06-01-2012, 04:21 PM
David,
PH doesn't matter as long as it is stable

TURQ64
06-01-2012, 04:49 PM
David,
PH doesn't matter as long as it is stable

+1

Check my thread on raising Giant Blues in RO Reject....tds waaay high (700)..consistency...key to the highway

DiscusDrew
06-01-2012, 10:07 PM
That's a rad experiment and should prove the point to new discus people, I think its one of the most common misconceptions about discus. LFS and similar places seem to only encourage this idea, that discuss need soft acidic water. Good job dispelling that rumor with proof....

David1972
06-04-2012, 10:24 AM
Well I have some good news out of all of this. The third discus that I expected to die didn't. It is eating in front of me but still remains to be shy out of the others. I fed it blood worms (from frozen) and also flake food and Spirulina Brine shrimp. It still hides sometimes but seems to be less anti-social these days. Doing 60% water changes every other day.

DiscusDrew
06-04-2012, 04:49 PM
If it were my tank, especially because those fish are very young, I would up water changes to daily of at least 50%. Just a recommendation, it keeps a lot of problems at bay, a lot can accumulate in 24 hours in a young juvenile tank with a heavy feeding schedule (which it should be). Not saying you can't get away with bi daily changes but you'll lower your risk factor if you increase changes.

DiscusDrew
06-04-2012, 04:52 PM
Ooh and good job removing the buffer, very common mistake for people starting out and its a problem propagated by numerous places that still say discus prefer soft acidic water... Which in almost all domestic applications simply isn't true anymore, save for breeding. All they really care about is consistency, good clean equipment and water, and stable consistent parameters.

TURQ64
06-04-2012, 06:08 PM
That's some good news!


That's a rad experiment and should prove the point to new discus people, I think its one of the most common misconceptions about discus. LFS and similar places seem to only encourage this idea, that discuss need soft acidic water. Good job dispelling that rumor with proof....
As for this, I did do it for the reason you stated, but it's not 'new' science..Many of us heavy RO users have raised them this way for years. I felt it did need to be put out there as a concept for some of the newer keepers and their worries, tho'

David1972
06-05-2012, 09:46 AM
DiscusDrew, yes I upped my water changes to daily now. I bought a power head pump to make water changes easier. Before I was scooping water from tank to tank. Now all I do is drain 50-60%, attach a hose and plug in the pump. Sooo much easier. The little guy is stubborn eater sometime I have to coax it out of the corner with a my feeder baster with water current. It then goes with the group to feed.

David1972
06-05-2012, 09:55 AM
That's some good news!


As for this, I did do it for the reason you stated, but it's not 'new' science..Many of us heavy RO users have raised them this way for years. I felt it did need to be put out there as a concept for some of the newer keepers and their worries, tho'

Well I wasn't trying to experiment. It was a costly loss for me but maybe someone will learn. The only thing I use now to pretreat my water is Prime and Aqueon water treatment.