Tired of WC

[dprais1]

Okay so I've been very frustrated lately and looking from some advice.

Background50 gallon tank
95% daily wc with aged, aerated, primed tap water
6 discus --(2) about 3.5", (4) about 2.5"...my best guestimates
4 neons
9 corydoras
little bit o sand on the bottom, litle bit of driftwood and couple fake plants (4)
(2) AC 70s with prefilters on intake and 3 of their spongefilters on the inside. prefilters cleaned in waste tank water 2x a week and sponge media in one of the ACs cleaned in waste tank water each week.
wipe down glass several times a week

feeding only flake food and fdbw. 5-7 feedings a day, sometimes 8.

School starting again soon. working fulltime 3rd shift, 1 teenage daughter and one 3 year old daughter. Life in otherwords.

the problem is i dont think i can dedicate the amount of time i am right now to discus. thanks to Crazyangel i am reconsidering my routine.

thought 1
do 95% WC but 3-4 times a week only.
feed flake food 3x a day and fdbw 1-2 a day (maybe use an autofeeder for the flake)
get 1 bn pleco to clean glass
keep everything else the same

thought 2
same as thought 1 but sell the 4 smaller discus and instead get 3 new discus in the 3.5" range

[TURQ64]

There's really no way around maintenance when it comes to Discus..Bailing out, or having options is your business, but the fish need the regimen regardless of anyones 'decisions' or ideas...good luck with life...

[zimmjeff]

very impressed by your routine. I find that you can individualize tank maintenance and still have happy healthy fish. It takes a little practice and you need to watch your fish close. the key is to understock. good luck. I wouldn't cut out the wipes and would feed a little more diverse menu.

[dprais1]

There's really no way around maintenance when it comes to Discus..Bailing out, or having options is your business, but the fish need the regimen regardless of anyones 'decisions' or ideas...good luck with life...

okay thanks. now the advice i'm having a hard time sorting from your comments. are you trying to say that the two new routines are not good enough and if so then what is the flaw? im unclear in general about your post and what you are trying to convey.

[Bud Smith]

There's really no way around maintenance when it comes to Discus..Bailing out, or having options is your business, but the fish need the regimen regardless of anyones 'decisions' or ideas...good luck with life...

+1

[strawberryblonde]

I'd probably go with option #2. Sell the tiny discus and then purchase larger ones to match the 2 larger that you already have. And then....

1) 75 - 80% WC per day (It's a 50 gallon tank, if you're doing this right it really shouldn't take long at all)

2) Flake Food twice a day and FDBW 3-4 times per day

3) Clean the pre-filters and wipe down the inside of the glass once per week. More than that really isn't necessary with that size discus. NO Pleco!!! They poop tons!

Your food choices really aren't going to foul the tank badly enough for you to need to do 95% WC with the larger size discus in there. Feed FDBW more often than flake because of its higher protein content and the fact that it can sit in the tank while they consume it and it doesn't cloud the water or make a big mess of the bottom.

If it was me, I'd buy a Mag Float to clean the sides of the tank and just swipe them prior to a WC. Cleans the glass of any discus slime and isn't a huge PITA. LOL

[Wjmulder]

I wouldn't go with option 2, by the time you sell the juvies at a loss, and go through the quarantine time for more expensive 3 1/2 inch discus, your juvies will be 3 1/2 inches. Just my opinion

[dprais1]

I'd probably go with option #2. Sell the tiny discus and then purchase larger ones to match the 2 larger that you already have. And then....

1) 75 - 80% WC per day (It's a 50 gallon tank, if you're doing this right it really shouldn't take long at all)

2) Flake Food twice a day and FDBW 3-4 times per day

3) Clean the pre-filters and wipe down the inside of the glass once per week. More than that really isn't necessary with that size discus. NO Pleco!!! They poop tons!

Your food choices really aren't going to foul the tank badly enough for you to need to do 95% WC with the larger size discus in there. Feed FDBW more often than flake because of its higher protein content and the fact that it can sit in the tank while they consume it and it doesn't cloud the water or make a big mess of the bottom.

If it was me, I'd buy a Mag Float to clean the sides of the tank and just swipe them prior to a WC. Cleans the glass of any discus slime and isn't a huge PITA. LOL

thanks . I timed my wc at 41 minutes and 36 seconds from start to finish using a pond pump. maybe i just need to get a much more powerfull pump. wiping down the glass only takes a minute or so for me (long arms and height advantage). I'll skip the BN pleco, i didn't really want one just thought it might help.

[kent1963]

thanks . I timed my wc at 41 minutes and 36 seconds from start to finish using a pond pump. maybe i just need to get a much more powerfull pump. wiping down the glass only takes a minute or so for me (long arms and height advantage). I would look at your routine and see were you can save time. I'm currently doing 6 tanks with discus(70,2x40,and 2x 29) and it usually takes less then an hour including refilling the water tank. I don't change quite that much water though, depending on how the tank looks I change 50-75% daily. Also you should remember there are many very beautiful,challenging and rewarding fish that require almost zero maintenance to thrive ( just a thought).

[nc0gnet0]

1) Cut down your feedings to 4x a day. Feeding 8x a day is extreme.

2) Loose the sand until they are larger.

3) you can cut down the amount of water you change (say 60%), just don't cut down the frequency (daily). Just make sure you do a good job removing any fish waste and uneaten food.

4) Pleco is fine. If a pleco is pooping "tons" that mean he is eating alot of uneaten food. As unsightly as poop might be, it is still better than any quantity of uneaten food left in the tank.

5) maybe try a pellet over the flake.

6) add a hot mag with a micron filter and rinse this 3x a week.

[strawberryblonde]

thanks . I timed my wc at 41 minutes and 36 seconds from start to finish using a pond pump. maybe i just need to get a much more powerfull pump. wiping down the glass only takes a minute or so for me (long arms and height advantage). I'll skip the BN pleco, i didn't really want one just thought it might help.

The water change time does seem quite long. I use a python hose to siphon out to my garden, then hook it directly to my faucet (without the fancy attachment that wastes water) and fill 'er up. An 85% WC on a 115g tank takes about 45 minutes total. What's the flow rate on that pond pump?

[dprais1]

The water change time does seem quite long. I use a python hose to siphon out to my garden, then hook it directly to my faucet (without the fancy attachment that wastes water) and fill 'er up. An 85% WC on a 115g tank takes about 45 minutes total. What's the flow rate on that pond pump?

210 gph. which is the cut down pumping water 'up'. i timed my wc twice. using the pump in the tank and the siphoning the water out. almost identical times, of course siphoning allows me to vac the entire bottom every day.

anybody recomend a really solid pump? I think that's the problem.

thanks

[T_om]

There's really no way around maintenance when it comes to Discus..Bailing out, or having options is your business, but the fish need the regimen regardless of anyones 'decisions' or ideas...good luck with life...

Discus do not "need" 95% water changes every day, "regardless of anyone's 'decisions' or ideas".

What they need is good water quality and massive water changes are one no-brainer way to accomplish this. There are others.

First, the bio-load on this 50 gal. tank is a bit high considering you are primarily focusing on your Discus and wanting to reduce the maintenance. That is one thing forcing you to do those massive changes.

I would personally find those Corys a new home. Saying they are there to clean up uneaten food is counter productive... they turn that food into feces and nitrates go up. Solve this by not over-feeding, not by depending on other fish to process the extra food into fish poop.

If there is room for a sump, you might try adding a turf algae scrubber. That, IMHO, is the best nitrates remover out there at present and they are cheap to home-build.

If you are continuing to do those massive 95% changes, then I think you can get by with once a week. I raised a LOT of fish in tanks with once a week changes and I was not changing 95% of the water each time either. But the key is not to over-feed the fish and not over-populate the tank. As for the number of times you feed every day, 20 times is not "too many". What matters is the AMOUNT fed. Fish are almost continuous feeders. As long as food is present, they will normally eat until sated... it is just programmed into them by nature.

I would experiment with fewer changes, more attention to feeding, lessening the bio-load, and adding a sump if possible.

Tom

[JenTN]

Discus do not "need" 95% water changes every day, "regardless of anyone's 'decisions' or ideas".

What they need is good water quality and massive water changes are one no-brainer way to accomplish this. There are others.

First, the bio-load on this 50 gal. tank is a bit high considering you are primarily focusing on your Discus and wanting to reduce the maintenance. That is one thing forcing you to do those massive changes.

I would personally find those Corys a new home. Saying they are there to clean up uneaten food is counter productive... they turn that food into feces and nitrates go up. Solve this by not over-feeding, not by depending on other fish to process the extra food into fish poop.

If there is room for a sump, you might try adding a turf algae scrubber. That, IMHO, is the best nitrates remover out there at present and they are cheap to home-build.

If you are continuing to do those massive 95% changes, then I think you can get by with once a week. I raised a LOT of fish in tanks with once a week changes and I was not changing 95% of the water each time either. But the key is not to over-feed the fish and not over-populate the tank. As for the number of times you feed every day, 20 times is not "too many". What matters is the AMOUNT fed. Fish are almost continuous feeders. As long as food is present, they will normally eat until sated... it is just programmed into them by nature.

I would experiment with fewer changes, more attention to feeding, lessening the bio-load, and adding a sump if possible.

Tom

+1

[LizStreithorst]

I totally agree with this.


1) Cut down your feedings to 4x a day. Feeding 8x a day is extreme.

2) Loose the sand until they are larger.

3) you can cut down the amount of water you change (say 60%), just don't cut down the frequency (daily). Just make sure you do a good job removing any fish waste and uneaten food.

4) Pleco is fine. If a pleco is pooping "tons" that mean he is eating alot of uneaten food. As unsightly as poop might be, it is still better than any quantity of uneaten food left in the tank.

5) maybe try a pellet over the flake.

6) add a hot mag with a micron filter and rinse this 3x a week.

[LizStreithorst]

I only wipe down the glass once a week. Add a bristlenose. Your glass will stay clean.

[JenTN]

I only wipe down the glass once a week. Add a bristlenose. Your glass will stay clean.

True. I have an older bn that is lazy so I added a baby to pick up the slack. Happened to get a male and a female out of this.

[DiscusDrew]

My main point would be that your bio-load for a 50 gallon tank (assuming you want to spend less time doing stuff with the tank) is way too high, I agree with getting rid of some of the other fish and maybe focusing on the discus. I also agree that at this point its pointless to get new discus as the fish really should be up over 3.5 inches in less than a month unless there is something wrong.

Something also is not right with your water change time, I use python to drain, sump pump to refill (1200gph) from aging barrels, takes less time than your one water change for me to move about 100 gallons of water on three tanks (200 gallons total tank volume).

[JenTN]

Just a guess, but I think the time taking to do the wc is from.having sand. I have a 55 gallon with sand and mine takes about that long, time consuming trying to get all the crap out of the sand :-/.

[dprais1]

okay, i really appriciate all the feedback.
neon--gotta go, i thought they would have been eaten by now but i'll get em gone this week
corys--i like them a lot so i'll get rid of three and just keep the six sterbies i got from martha, not intended to clean just enjoy
food- if feed lots of little meals, but i think i still over do just to make sure they get enough. Im going to get an auto feeder and shoot for 5 meals, but still just bills super BH and fdbw. the autofeeder will hopefully take the 'human element' out of the process
...
wiping the glass- just doesn't take me more than a minute or two, so i'll keep doing that a few days a week unless i can find a single BN pleco from a source i can trust without paying a bunch for shipping
hot mag--not really possible for me at the moment but i might try craigslist
sand--gotta have it or my wife would say "no fish" but i will minimize the qty even more.


siphoning. even when i use the pond pump in the tank it only shaved about 50 sec from the whole wc process from start to finish. so i found a mag drive 9.5 at pet mountain for about 76.00, I'll order that and and some new hose.

discus, i'll just wait a few months and let them grow.

FYI- this whole thread started because in the past few months i have missed two days of doing w/c. the most recent was thur when i took my daughter to the zoo, came home took a 2 hour nap, got up and went to work third shift. I take my discus seriously and care very much about their health and well being. skipping a day made me feel guilty and i was, in actuality, frustrated that i should feel that way. skipping one water change every month and a half probably is not a big deal, especially since i was gone all day they only got fed 3x.

-anyhow thanks all for the advice, i know my routine and fish will be the better for it. it was good to dig into the process and get some solutions.

[RiceEggsandSpam]

I perform 25-30% WC every 3-4 days with great success. Bare bottom tank so I can suck up all the trash helps too.

[tonytheboss1]

Discus do not "need" 95% water changes every day, "regardless of anyone's 'decisions' or ideas".

What they need is good water quality and massive water changes are one no-brainer way to accomplish this. There are others.

First, the bio-load on this 50 gal. tank is a bit high considering you are primarily focusing on your Discus and wanting to reduce the maintenance. That is one thing forcing you to do those massive changes.

I would personally find those Corys a new home. Saying they are there to clean up uneaten food is counter productive... they turn that food into feces and nitrates go up. Solve this by not over-feeding, not by depending on other fish to process the extra food into fish poop.

If there is room for a sump, you might try adding a turf algae scrubber. That, IMHO, is the best nitrates remover out there at present and they are cheap to home-build.

If you are continuing to do those massive 95% changes, then I think you can get by with once a week. I raised a LOT of fish in tanks with once a week changes and I was not changing 95% of the water each time either. But the key is not to over-feed the fish and not over-populate the tank. As for the number of times you feed every day, 20 times is not "too many". What matters is the AMOUNT fed. Fish are almost continuous feeders. As long as food is present, they will normally eat until sated... it is just programmed into them by nature.

I would experiment with fewer changes, more attention to feeding, lessening the bio-load, and adding a sump if possible.

Tom

++1

[krislewis3]

I think you should go on craigs list, and purchase a larger tank. This would solve ALL of your problems...Good Luck, Kris
+1 on the bn pleco.....the amount of waste comming from just one is hard to believe!!!!! I didnt realize that rotting food is worse than fish waste!!!

[dprais1]

just got a bn pleco yesterday. about 1"long, some sort of long fin. an animal will never produce as much waste as it consumes because it uses most of the calories for growth or energy. I look for a larger tank everyday on craigslist. and several times a week i find great deals, but my wife is not agreeing.

[Bill63SG]

just got a bn pleco yesterday. about 1"long, some sort of long fin. an animal will never produce as much waste as it consumes because it uses most of the calories for growth or energy. I look for a larger tank everyday on craigslist. and several times a week i find great deals, but my wife is not agreeing.Hope you quarintined it.

[ktm4us6]

+1

[krislewis3]

+2

[Brent1972]

Re : Water change - Have a look at the Stendker Discus web site (basic information/changing water) Sorry I cant post a link yet.

[dprais1]

update
mag 9.5 scheduled to arrive monday. still doing 95% wc daily. siphoned out more sand so not much left. neon are gone as are 3 corys- so six left.
still waiting to order the auto fish feeder and a couple new spong pre-filters from kensfish. did not qt BN Pleco. just don't have the option to qt at the moment...but plan to treat the whole tank with metro and prazi again after i move in a couple months. will probably skip 1-2 wc a week in the near future....maybe.

[Brent1972]

If you are going to reduce your water changes do it slowly to give your filter time to adjust.

[dprais1]

got the mag drive 9.5 pump set up with 3/4" hose.

-now the tank is drained in 5 minutes
-filled in 6 minutes
-water barrel in about 12

the biggest problem i think was that i had a brass hose connector that attached two pieces of 5/8" tubing. that little brass connector really restricted the flow of water from 5/8" diameter to probably half that. I wouldn't be suprised if there was a stone stuck in there as well from siphoning. when i cut the original 5/8" tube to just a few feet for cleaning, I emptied 3 gallons of water in less than a minute.

So.....had i realized the problem was the connector I could have saved a bunch of money

problem----$1.57 brass connector
My solution---$137.00 for new pump and hose

Better solution---$35.00 for new hose