Mixing Kenny's and Hans Discus

[mike046]

Hey everyone I recently sold some discus I had and now I have nothing in my tank I emptied the tank and used the seeded sponges I had to cycle the new water...so my question is there are some Discus that both Kenny and Hans have I was planning to order from both and have them arrive the same day and introduce them all together maybe a total of 4 of each in a 125gl...is it safe to do so??? Or just stay with one, I read somewhere that it's not safe to mix discus from Asia with German ones.

[Altum Nut]

The rule is never mix from differents sources at the same time. Introduce one source and QT the other.
As for your previously seeded sponges...the benifical bacteria will die off if not fed. Chances are you will have to cycle again before adding fish.
Asian and German can be very happy together.

...Ralph

[DiscusDrew]

You tell Hans about this idea and he will let you know his opinion real quick haha.... Point is that us no longer a true QT like it would be from a single source.... Its all a matter of the risk you want to take my friend...

[mike046]

Thanks guys....will consider that greatly

[DiscusDrew]

It would essentially be the same as taking your new discus and putting it in with old stock. Those are both solid importers don't get me wrong, you just never know what pathogens exist that can be transferred even if the fish seem perfectly happy it could just be because their own individual immune systems keep the pathogens in check. Doesn't mean that a Stendker's immune system can take the pathogens from the Asian fish out visa versa. Best to QT separately then combine (but shh don't tell Hans when you combine them if you choose to do so... ;) )

[mike046]

LoL...I won't Thanks Bud

[Bud Smith]

Based upon my experience - discus from one source per tank - I have had no further problems

[YSS]

If you are going to have issues when mixing fish from two different sources, you will have issues whether you QT one group or put them all together at once. I have mixed fish from various sources with no issues, but others have.

[DiscusDrew]

Like I said, all a matter of the risk level you are willing to accept. Theres no guarantee you will have problems, theres just no guarantee that you wont have problems either. I mixed two sources about three shipments ago and hell took over, everybody lived, but I fought long and hard to keep them around. At this point I will no longer do that, and in my case they were both Asian, so it wasnt a matter of German vs Asian, its simply different sources period. There are plenty that have mixed sources or not quarantined and not had a single issue!!... There are also plenty that have had problems because of the same action.

[kent1963]

If you are going to have issues when mixing fish from two different sources, you will have issues whether you QT one group or put them all together at once. I have mixed fish from various sources with no issues, but others have. +1 I trust both of these sources. Any possible pathogens that one or the other group is tolerant of will still be there after QT. They after all will be QT'ed with others from the same source, I would simply make sure to closely observe them and be ready to take action if necessary.

[Discus-Hans]

(but shh don't tell Hans when you combine them if you choose to do so... ;) )


I saw that lol lol lol You know, it's all been said, you take some risks, I know a lot of people keep Kenny's (good guy, good fish) and our Stendkers together with out any problems.

[DonMD]

You know, I was wondering that very thing, about mixing Asian and German fish. So I asked Stendker in Germany. Here's their reply:

Dear Don,

many thanks for your kind email and your inquiry!
The colour strains you are asking for are typical for Asian discus. We
do not intend to breed white or yellow discus in the future. We would
have to breed with discus fish from Asia and this is a much too high
risk for all discus fish in our hatchery!

Please keep in mind that you should not mix discus fish from different
breeders. We understood that you already have some Stendker discus fish,
so if you are keen on these new strains from Kenny we recommend you to
work with a complete new tank and separate filters, nets, .... so that
all fish stay healthy!

Kind regards,

Sandra & Bastian
--
Diskuszucht Stendker GmbH & CoKG
Am Holzbach 18
48231 Warendorf
Tel. 02581 60627
Fax 02581 633205
www.diskuszucht-stendker.de

[RiceEggsandSpam]

I get my discus from 2 different sources and I keep them in different tanks until they are about 4 inches then I acclimate them to my 180 gal. Have not ran into any problems doing it that way.

[YSS]

You know, I was wondering that very thing, about mixing Asian and German fish. So I asked Stendker in Germany. Here's their reply:

Dear Don,

many thanks for your kind email and your inquiry!
The colour strains you are asking for are typical for Asian discus. We
do not intend to breed white or yellow discus in the future. We would
have to breed with discus fish from Asia and this is a much too high
risk for all discus fish in our hatchery!

Please keep in mind that you should not mix discus fish from different
breeders. We understood that you already have some Stendker discus fish,
so if you are keen on these new strains from Kenny we recommend you to
work with a complete new tank and separate filters, nets, .... so that
all fish stay healthy!

Kind regards,

Sandra & Bastian
--
Diskuszucht Stendker GmbH & CoKG
Am Holzbach 18
48231 Warendorf
Tel. 02581 60627
Fax 02581 633205
www.diskuszucht-stendker.de

This response reminds me of a response you get from a doctor.

"Hey Doc, I kinda feel like I am coming down with a cold. Don't feel all that well, my throat feels like it's getting sore, and I started coughing. What should I do? "

"You should go to ER and get a full exam to make sure you don't have a cancer."

[TonyAPBTx]

I have both Kenny's and Hans's fish together in my 180 gallon.

I have not had any issues.

However, that doesn't mean there aren't risks associated with it but its been great for me.

[DiscusBR]

Dont´t do it! Here is what happens when you mix Kenny´s and Hans´discus:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee482/DiscusBR/Nov2011/untitled.png

[Eddie]

I saw that lol lol lol You know, it's all been said, you take some risks, I know a lot of people keep Kenny's (good guy, good fish) and our Stendkers together with out any problems.

+1

[farebox]

I also have Han's and Kenny's discus in my 125G Display Tank, no problem..... http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb436/farebox/DSC_1077.jpg
farebox

[Josef]

I think we should also go back to segregation of people cause you know we all carry different germs and we could kill each other by sickness:alien:

Ok ok it's corny I know but that's all I got from this post...sorry:(

[Elliots]

Josef, you are correct. There is a chance of a problem when you mix two reputable suppliers Discus but I do not think it is too big. You assume the risk. Next time don't cross the street you might get hit by a car. Please remember this site consists mostly of questions and complaints. No one posts that "Yesterday I mixed my Discus from several suppliers and had no problem." They post if there is a problem and want help. It is quite possible that quarantining fish might not eliminate pathogens that will infect your old fish. Quarantining fish makes it easier to treat new fish and pick up obvious illnesses. Whenever you add new fish by any method you should watch all your fish closely. Also remember that when you add quarantined fish to your regular old tank your old fish may contaminate your new fish!

[Discus-Hans]

It's funny some reactions. Why do I always stick my neck out with the risk to get my throat cut???

You know I see it this way:

If I say it's no problem, you mix and you get problems, it's my fault.

If I say it can be a problem you get.....................

It's bitten by the dog or scratched by the cat situation. Think I will, from now on, just as other resellers here, stick to my own part of the forum.
Tell what I've for sale, for how much and say Thank you if somebody post something nice,

Hans

[JenTN]

It's funny some reactions. Why do I always stick my neck out with the risk to get my throat cut???

You know I see it this way:

If I say it's no problem, you mix and you get problems, it's my fault.

If I say it can be a problem you get.....................

It's bitten by the dog or scratched by the cat situation. Think I will, from now on, just as other resellers here, stick to my own part of the forum.
Tell what I've for sale, for how much and say Thank you if somebody post something nice,

Hans



What, you don't like being called Hitler???? LOL!!!!!!!

Psssst....let's really get things going and throw the word CULL out there in this post as well!!!!!

[DiscusDrew]

It's funny some reactions. Why do I always stick my neck out with the risk to get my throat cut???

You know I see it this way:

If I say it's no problem, you mix and you get problems, it's my fault.

If I say it can be a problem you get.....................

It's bitten by the dog or scratched by the cat situation. Think I will, from now on, just as other resellers here, stick to my own part of the forum.
Tell what I've for sale, for how much and say Thank you if somebody post something nice,

Hans
NO, I for one, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with your opinions on matters like this, I ALWAYS respect it and know it comes from experience. Keep throwing yourself out there Hans, not all people may understand and as you've so elegantly put, some may even call you a dick for it, but it is your opinions out of your experiences, and I for one respect them. I appreciate your honestly and recommendations and truly hope that you never allow anybody to push you out of providing them.

I think the point of all of this is no matter what you do, there will be some level of risk, it doesnt matter what the situation is, in this hobby it is all a matter of how much risk you are willing to accept. Some will accept more than other. Many dont quarantine, they may never have problems (they wont be the first or last), it simply does not mean that you will never have problems from not doing QT. So do what you choose to do, accept the risk you are willing to accept. These are all opinions based on experiences by hobbyists, we all have our ways, take advice or leave it, its a decision we all have to make.

And to my point earlier about pathogens crossing where the individual groups of fish have the pathogens in check but when mixed the other fish may not have a built up immunity to the pathogens.... Yes, even if you QT the pathogens will still be there (unless its a proactive QT) however after a month of being established a fishes immune system and stress level are much better than immediately after being shipped in my opinion. I will grant you that BOTH of these sources ship INCREDIBLY well so there is minimal stress, but there is still some no doubt and the fish responds as such. I am by no means saying that there WILL be problems if you choose to just combine them immediately, but there is somewhat of a higher risk, though with these two sources it is minimal. Again we are back to... there will always be a certain risk level, accept what you are willing to accept, and give your fish the best care possible. After all, thats what really matters the most.

[BABYJIZAY]

I have fish from both and no problems. Keep your tank clean and water fresh.

[Josef]

I know exactly how Han's feels :)

[Floppy Fin's]

Gentlemen, and ladies, as well as Discus friends. I am new here on the SimplyDiscus forum, and have also been hedgehopping around to the most predominant importer's and breeders of Discus. I originally started with Discus from Jack Wattley back in the late 1960's...so I am also a old timer of sorts. I had my hobby discus hatchery called The Discus Den, in Marshalltown, Iowa.. And much more to the story could be added. I mention this only to underscore what I think of Hans of Discus Hans, as well as Kenny, and Mike Beal from Ohio Discus. I have met some top quality individuals... and I purchased 12 of Discus Hans Pigeon Blue Discus. I screwed up with a unbalanced cultured tank, and lost 11 of those beauties the first 24 hours, not realizing I was using a old
quart of Prime that was outdated..and my water was not decloriinated. I literally killed off my discus to my own horror. I had a new pint of Prime came the following day.. and it saved one fish out of 12. After correcting my error, a week later I reordered another 8 fish from Discus Hans. Not his fault, nor the fish themselves.. Just my own miscalculations. OK.. now to the point I want to make.
Do your home research..and if you import any of Kenny's, Discus Han's, or Mikes fish to mix...do keep your own quarantine methods and do your mix very gradually to overcome any adversities.. and as a second level of interest, as long as we have men of
Han's, Kenny, and Mike calibers doing their own customer protection quarantine proceedures .. we have little to worry about, except ourselves..
Cheers..
Floppy Fin's.......

[nc0gnet0]

Much to do about nothing going on here.

A few things. First of all, Kenny's fish (via forrest) already come from multiple sources. Forrest does'nt breed all these varieties of discus, it would be nearly impossible. Rather he has a network of breeders.

2nd of all, the same argument could be made of Han's fish a generation or two apart. A disus purchased from Hans in 2010 might not have been exposed to the same pathogens as one purchased from Han's in 2012

[Josef]

Much to do about nothing going on here.

A few things. First of all, Kenny's fish (via forrest) already come from multiple sources. Forrest does'nt breed all these varieties of discus, it would be nearly impossible. Rather he has a network of breeders.

2nd of all, the same argument could be made of Han's fish a generation or two aprat. A disus purchased from Hans in 2010 might not have been exposed to the same pathogens as one purchased from Han's in 2012

Dang! Another person with some common sense.

[YSS]

Hans,

You know you are the man when it comes to discus. I will take NO ONE's advise before yours. Plus you are a great guy.

[terps]

From Stendker's site:

"• Can I mix different types of discus fish?
You can mix different colours from the same breeder at any time. However, you should never mix different types such as fish caught in the wild, fish from Asiatic breeders or STENDKER discus fish because fish from different breeding operations will have different microbial strains and therefore may not be mixed. "

http://www.diskuszucht-stendker.de/gb/587,0,faq,index,0.html

[DiscusDrew]

We all have our ways, weve all said our ways, take the risk, dont take the risk (whether you consider it a risk again, weve all said our opinions), all up to the hobbyist.

[tonytheboss1]

It's funny some reactions. Why do I always stick my neck out with the risk to get my throat cut???

You know I see it this way:

If I say it's no problem, you mix and you get problems, it's my fault.

If I say it can be a problem you get.....................

It's bitten by the dog or scratched by the cat situation. Think I will, from now on, just as other resellers here, stick to my own part of the forum.
Tell what I've for sale, for how much and say Thank you if somebody post something nice,

Hans

:bandana: Personally, (selfishly) I think you should continue to offer your input. I & others value & appreciate your opinions coming from an experienced breeder. There will always be detractors. Don't let them keep you from helping others. I havn't had the pleasure of experiencing Kenny's Discus but I am super impressed with you & your operation. Keep doin you HANS !!! "T"

[BMBrooksville]

I have a 125 gallon with 6 discus from Hans and 6 Discus from Golden State Discus. it's been several months and have had no issues. Fingers Crossed. I also have a 125 with just Hans discus and a 155 with Discus from Wattley, Chicago Discus, Golden State discus, and Myrtle beach discus

[dspeers]

From a general infectious disease perspective, given that there are 2 groups, you want to protect both groups to the highest degree possible. Unfortunately in order to do this you need not 1 but 2 quarantine tanks. Once the two groups have been observed and determined not to exhibit any signs of illness you would want to choose a sacrifice from each group so you were only risking 2 fish rather that all of group A or all of group B plus 1 from the alternate group. Who knows maybe you get lucky and the pair spawns.

[pastry]

High 5 to all risk takers :bandana:

I get it, discus are expensive, but dear God if they can genetically reproduce then I'm willing to bet the vast majority of times they'll be fine as long as you're not using any source where the discus look like skeletor, half of it's tankmates aren't "sleeping", and they aren't offsprings of a Trump & Hillary hybrid (we're all screwed... politics aren't getting any better)

[Second Hand Pat]

High 5 to all risk takers :bandana:

I get it, discus are expensive, but dear God if they can genetically reproduce then I'm willing to bet the vast majority of times they'll be fine as long as you're not using any source where the discus look like skeletor, half of it's tankmates aren't "sleeping", and they aren't offsprings of a Trump & Hillary hybrid (we're all screwed... politics aren't getting any better)

I know in your heart you are trying to be a good role model Elliot :D LOL
Pat

[danotaylor]

I did it the right way (hero fish after 6 months of observation) from 2 reputable sources (Al and Dennis), and nearly lost them all. Perfectly healthy groups on their own for over 6 months. Blew me away. Fortunately the discus were talking and I was quick to listen. I only lost 1, and after treating both tanks did end up with them altogether happy & healthy, but not without issue.
If anyone is interested in the thread its called "hero fish question" and outlines start to finish what happened.
Mixing fish from different sources is at your own risk for sure...I know many have rolled the dice and win, but not this guy LOL ;)

[pastry]

I know in your heart you are trying to be a good role model Elliot :D LOL
Pat

Lol Pat! I wouldn't say role model... maybe more like the model that shows "not best practices" :p

Only time I had a bad experience mixing sources was a long time ago when I have wild discus. Out of nowhere my local fish store called me and told me I had to see the group of wild that they got in. They were Brown discus with heckle bars. Absolutely jaw-dropping. I only have room for one and so I took it home, QT'ed it for a month, then put it into the main tank. The next day was Easter Sunday. Went to church and came back to half of The discus dead and the other half dying. By the end of the day, all of them were dead. That was the only variable I could think of that was different. You would think I would be more cautious after that, but instead I've been more Reckless. I have not experienced any problem like that since.

Meanwhile, on mixing Asians with Europeans, my stance is if human Asians and human Europeans can do it and have a baby then so can discus! Yes, I know the first pilgrims had all kinds of diseases that wiped out Native Americans.... but in this day in age we have the knowledge to get over that. One love!