Q about cull fish

[secuono]

Please no arguments or anything like that.
I am just wondering why this never seems to happen, mainly with these fish alone.

Why are culls never sold and only destroyed?
Many people will take in or buy disfigured animals of other kinds. Why are fish treated differently? Why kill it instead of making a few dollars off the culls? I know selling them on purpose is just in bad taste, but if there were a group of people who were willing to take culls strictly as pets, why not?
Why not let someone get some culls, grow em and enjoy the weird looking fish?
I'm guessing it's a few things; taboo thing to do, risk someone will breed or resale the deformed fish, risk of being outcast/humiliated by other breeders that would look down on you for not following the leader.

I don't want a fight to start about this, I know it's been chatted about but I'm just not understanding why not. No lectures or drawn out chatter that in the end equal culls as pets is no.

If 3 legged dogs, ear-less cats, 2 headed snakes or other animals that just don't fit the 'breed standards' can be adopted and loved, why not Discus with big eyes or that aren't round enough?

I've thought about getting the perfect Discus, but price was always a huge screaming no. After all, it's a fish, lives a few years, dies and then you notice how much $ you've sunk into something that you could of instead used the money on fish dinners for a lifetime. I have the space, gone through most fish and all are just too small and do nothing w/no color to them. I don't need them, I won't make money off them, nothing but dumping money in to feed them. So why not find someone who has some culls that would rather see them live on as pets instead of into the compost bin?

So lets hear from those of you that would like to see some culls as pets or at least change this odd 'monopoly' of sorts when it comes to 'imperfect' fish. Nothing is perfect anyway, why is it so darned important to just have the 'best' and kill everything else.

I'm guessing some may not post because they don't want anyone thinking less of them, that's fine. If anyone does have some culls that aren't totally 'trash quality' and would like them homed, you're welcome to PM me and I will never give out any of your info, nor post anything about them here so there's no issues or stress over it.

Again, please no fights, these are all just questions. No demands, no trying to force views of others onto fellow fish keepers and the such. Just a light chat about 'why' we do what we do.

[Second Hand Pat]

I would think the biggest reason for culling beside quality is the time, money and energy spent on raising these fish. It is a lot of work to raise these guys. Another possible reason is if the culls are weak they could easily sicken and perhaps make the rest of the fry sick. It is sort of amazing that once you get a sizeable spawn you end up wearing a farmer's hat.

[John_Nicholson]

The biggest issue is not that bad discus are being culled, but that "3 legged dogs, ear-less cats, 2 headed snakes or other animals" are not being culled. Any breeder worth a damn should have culled all of those also. As a breeder you either promote quality or crap.

-john

[JenTN]

The biggest issue is not that bad discus are being culled, but that "3 legged dogs, ear-less cats, 2 headed snakes or other animals" are not being culled. Any breeder worth a damn should have culled all of those also. As a breeder you either promote quality or crap.

-john

You done did it now...

[Big-Ken]

Also once those fish are sold you have no control over what is done with them so they might end up breeding and passing along the bad traits then that spawn is sold and before long bad traits are being spread around and muddles up strains

[nc0gnet0]

The question is why do you have a problem with a breeder doing what nature would have done naturally????

Rick

[Larry Bugg]

This topic has been answered many times before. You are not going to find new answers. Search and read to your hearts content. Why bring it up one more time? It will end as this topic always ends. It appears you already know the subject has been talked about many times before. So my question would be why bring it up again? Your writing certainly has a slant to it. That speaks volumes to me. JMO. No fight. Just my questions.

[Bill63SG]

That's how you end up with certain breeds of dogs that ,lets say,are prone to bad hips,or go blind early.

[JenTN]

Sorry, it's my fault. I threatened to cull Pat in another thread.

[magewynd]

So why dump the fish you don't want on someone else? I haven't heard of a discus shelter yet. Maybe you shoud start a rescue since you don't cull but would rather dump.
Please no arguments or anything like that.
I am just wondering why this never seems to happen, mainly with these fish alone.

Why are culls never sold and only destroyed?


I've thought about getting the perfect Discus, but price was always a huge screaming no. After all, it's a fish, lives a few years, dies and then you notice how much $ you've sunk into something that you could of instead used the money on fish dinners for a lifetime. I have the space, gone through most fish and all are just too small and do nothing w/no color to them. I don't need them, I won't make money off them, nothing but dumping money in to feed them. So why not find someone who has some culls that would rather see them live on as pets instead of into the compost bin?

So lets hear from those of you that would like to see some culls as pets or at least change this odd 'monopoly' of sorts when it comes to 'imperfect' fish. Nothing is perfect anyway, why is it so darned important to just have the 'best' and kill everything else.


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?94935-What-I-hate-about-breeding&p=891274&highlight=#post891274

[Larry Bugg]

So why dump the fish you don't want on someone else? I haven't heard of a discus shelter yet. Maybe you shoud start a rescue since you don't cull but would rather dump.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?94935-What-I-hate-about-breeding&p=891274&highlight=#post891274

LOL, see, I knew there was a agenda here.

[secuono]

So the new points would be wasting money on fish that could infect the better quality fish. But if they were really better quality, you'd also want the strong and fit to survive and if they cannot survive with their deformed siblings, obviously they are not bred to live strong lives.
And the other about nature weeding out the weak. What about humans? If we should kill off all the deformed, weak, mentally off animals, humans should be included in that. After all, we are only animals who choose to keep others in captivity and eat others all for fun and little to do with the need of survival.
Nothing about our world is natural any longer, why do the fish need to be natural either?

This is one of they very, very few breeders of any animal that flat out refuses the idea of selling/donating culls. It seems like it's all about top dollar with the best looking fish and who cares about anything else.

[John_Nicholson]

"What about humans? If we should kill off all the deformed, weak, mentally off animals, humans should be included in that."

At least I would not have to read your posts.......

-john

[magewynd]

Pretty broad assumptions of others!
So the new points would be wasting money on fish that could infect the better quality fish. But if they were really better quality, you'd also want the strong and fit to survive and if they cannot survive with their deformed siblings, obviously they are not bred to live strong lives.
And the other about nature weeding out the weak. What about humans? If we should kill off all the deformed, weak, mentally off animals, humans should be included in that. After all, we are only animals who choose to keep others in captivity and eat others all for fun and little to do with the need of survival.
Nothing about our world is natural any longer, why do the fish need to be natural either?

This is one of they very, very few breeders of any animal that flat out refuses the idea of selling/donating culls. It seems like it's all about top dollar with the best looking fish and who cares about anything else.
Why would anyone continue in a hobby that they say is so against the nature of things and their own personal nature and beliefs. I would think that person would want to move on to another species THAT THEY CAN KEEP AS A PET, then have to relate to people who obviously have different values then themselves. But maybe I shouldn't assume.

[JenTN]

"What about humans? If we should kill off all the deformed, weak, mentally off animals, humans should be included in that."

At least I would not have to read your posts.......

-john

Lol

[JenTN]

I have a hard time understanding such an emotional attachment to growing fish. There are children that drink water from rivers that are dirtier than our tanks and vomit worms, yet your cause to take up is "save the discus culls"? Maybe you should gather them up and send them to starving kids to eat. Truth be told mothers of those kids probably think were all dumb jackasses to lay hundreds down of fish to look at.

[Bill63SG]

Maybe you should gather them up and send them to starving kids to eat.I could see a pan fried discus sandwhich,with some tartar sauce.

[JenTN]

I could see a pan fried discus sandwhich,with some tartar sauce.

They would fit perfectly on a hamburger bun!!!! We'd have Filet-O-Fish beat lol

[yim11]

What about humans? If we should kill off all the deformed, weak, mentally off animals, humans should be included in that. After all, we are only animals who choose to keep others in captivity and eat others all for fun and little to do with the need of survival.
Nothing about our world is natural any longer, why do the fish need to be natural either?

This is where your discussion is considered very unintelligent. The ASPCA doesn't help neglected children and Social Services doesn't assisted with neglected animals. That alone should have been enough for you not to make that ignorant comparison, but just in case you need more help - where are people harvested for food?

[JenTN]

This is where your discussion is considered very unintelligent. The ASPCA doesn't help neglected children and Social Services doesn't assisted with neglected animals. That alone should have been enough for you not to make that ignorant comparison, but just in case you need more help - where are people harvested for food?

Helllllooooo Clarissssse

[Bill63SG]

where are people harvested for food?Soylent green.

[yim11]

Helllllooooo Clarissssse

LMAO, maybe I should add with certain limited esoteric exceptions.

[JenTN]

Soylent green.

10 years til the pipes start smokin'!

[Second Hand Pat]

The best way to determine the reasons and mindset for culling is to raise a good size spawn and see how quickly one assumes a farmer's mindset.

Jen, if you want to cull me you will have to catch me. :p

[LizStreithorst]

I will reply to your first post becasuse I have yet to read any futher in the thread. I will read after I've had my say.

I truely don't care what other people raise and sell. If they have a market for deformed Discus, more power to them. Truth is, there is a very small market for Discus, even decent ones.

Some people have high standards, some don't.


Please no arguments or anything like that.
I am just wondering why this never seems to happen, mainly with these fish alone.

Why are culls never sold and only destroyed?
Many people will take in or buy disfigured animals of other kinds. Why are fish treated differently? Why kill it instead of making a few dollars off the culls? I know selling them on purpose is just in bad taste, but if there were a group of people who were willing to take culls strictly as pets, why not?
Why not let someone get some culls, grow em and enjoy the weird looking fish?
I'm guessing it's a few things; taboo thing to do, risk someone will breed or resale the deformed fish, risk of being outcast/humiliated by other breeders that would look down on you for not following the leader.

I don't want a fight to start about this, I know it's been chatted about but I'm just not understanding why not. No lectures or drawn out chatter that in the end equal culls as pets is no.

If 3 legged dogs, ear-less cats, 2 headed snakes or other animals that just don't fit the 'breed standards' can be adopted and loved, why not Discus with big eyes or that aren't round enough?

I've thought about getting the perfect Discus, but price was always a huge screaming no. After all, it's a fish, lives a few years, dies and then you notice how much $ you've sunk into something that you could of instead used the money on fish dinners for a lifetime. I have the space, gone through most fish and all are just too small and do nothing w/no color to them. I don't need them, I won't make money off them, nothing but dumping money in to feed them. So why not find someone who has some culls that would rather see them live on as pets instead of into the compost bin?

So lets hear from those of you that would like to see some culls as pets or at least change this odd 'monopoly' of sorts when it comes to 'imperfect' fish. Nothing is perfect anyway, why is it so darned important to just have the 'best' and kill everything else.

I'm guessing some may not post because they don't want anyone thinking less of them, that's fine. If anyone does have some culls that aren't totally 'trash quality' and would like them homed, you're welcome to PM me and I will never give out any of your info, nor post anything about them here so there's no issues or stress over it.

Again, please no fights, these are all just questions. No demands, no trying to force views of others onto fellow fish keepers and the such. Just a light chat about 'why' we do what we do.

[dprais1]

i wish i could find what Al said. but to summarize nobody buys discus expecting or wanting a deformed, weak, sickly, or small fish. they buy discus based on pics they have seen of beautifull, round, healthy fish. culls diminish the hobby and often diminish the ideal.

people buy "culls" in other species (namely mammals) out of compasion and cultural biases.

its why many cultures have taboos against eating dogs and cats and horses. and others don't. culture.

and the culture of this forum and the hobby is to produce superior fish, not inferior. fish that at least meet a certain unspoken, agreed upon standard.

IMO.

and that's what I want.

[tbird22771]

What about humans? If we should kill off all the deformed, weak, mentally off animals, humans should be included in that. After all, we are only animals who choose to keep others in captivity and eat others all for fun and little to do with the need of survival.

Your ignorance is mind boggling and rather offensive.

As for the discus, I can tell you personally what is like to be given fish that should have been culled. I got fish from a breeder who sent me some extras just in case - well the 3 extras all had gill deformities, and I am not a person who can cull anything so I still have them - 2 of them are growing as fast as the others and 1 is still a little smaller. Bottom line is that I now have 3 fish that I really don't have room for to begin with and not only that they are deformed.... and yeah I said it, I get a lot of joy out of just watching my fish and when them 3 turn to their bad sides it really bothers me. If you want them they are all yours.

[LizStreithorst]

Relax, Tbird. If you are enjoying you're short gill plate fish then they are good fish. If you despise the sight of them, you need to get harder. It's about priorties.

[discusdude6]

discus arent for everyone. even if you get them for free its still costly to raise them. if you cant afford it try a different specie of fish.

plenty of other fish in the sea

[Skip]

don't feed trolls

[dprais1]

don't feed trolls

+1, i'm learning.

[tbird22771]

don't feed trolls

Can we poke em? :smash:

[Bill63SG]

How 'bout a discus sandwich?

[JenTN]

How 'bout a discus sandwich?

If you google it, you can find pics of fried discus...I won't post em here, some might think it in poor taste. I have a book that has black and white photos of natives and fishermen eating discus.

[DiscusDrew]

If you would like I can give you several websites and breeders that apparently agree with your stance OP. I find good quality and good breeding habits in this hobby come from very few and a huge percentage of those are on this forum, I don't see these people as being immoral or uncaring about their discus... I find them EXACTLY the opposite, they uphold a moral standard to breeding and to this hobby, they cul fish that not only will live a difficult life as a runt, but will also undoubtedly keep as many people as possible from having yet another one of the horrible experiences with discuss that we hear about here all too often. There are FAR too many breeders and importers in this hobby that only care strictly about the money it brings and not the discus they provide. I would say I think exactly the opposite is our problem... So few focused on good health and good quality, and so many focused on the dollar signs. So thank God for this forum because it is the only relief...

P.S. Have you ever actually culled a fish? There are a multitude of reasons why, you may be surprised to discover why fish are truly culled from even good breeders.

[Teshi]

Culling fish isn't just for breeders. I have recently started keeping discus and before I bought from a SD sponsored breeder I bought from a 2 different LFS. The quality was poor. I wound up having to cull one of them instead of watching it die an agonizing death. It isn't fun. I wish the LFS would have been selling quality fish instead of one I paid to take home and cull after 2weeks.

[Bill63SG]

74259Hhhhmmm....to cull or not to cull.

[Skip]

74259Hhhhmmm....to cull or not to cull.

where is the rest of the fish?

[Bill63SG]

74260
where is the rest of the fish?Thats not the angle,he really is "S" shaped.

[fullmonti]

I haven't been on SD for a while. When I saw this thread it was like watching a train wreck, you know it will be ugly but you can't help but look. Patience & Tolerance with people & different opinions, ideas, & views than your own, would be a good thing. I know the hostility shown here on these subjects has taken a lot of the fun out of discus for me. I'm sure all of our mothers told us "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all". If not nice at least not so hostel would help.

[yusufm52]

secuono, have ever kept these fishes?
If you have you wouldn't be asking this question. And IMO a person who gets in to a certain hobby would do something to enhance the hobby and not degrade it.
And raising a bad strain would be exactly that, "DEGRADING".
Did mention this is "JUST MY OPINION".

Yusufm52
sent from tapatalk2

[LizStreithorst]

Mama Bear will speak. Let's not turn this into a fight. We all have different points of view. Big deal. The only standards each of us should worry about living up to are our own.

[Skip]

i am about to cull a fire red.. has been weak and gone down hill after meds two weeks ago :(

[Skip]

great... now i found him stuck behind heater.. and he kind of burned his head!!

[Disgirl]

Sorry Skip, sounds like he culled himself?
Barb

[zimmjeff]

skip drove him to suicide. nice job skip.

[LizStreithorst]

Yeah, Skip. You waited too long. I know how it is. You hope that the fish will turn around. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes they have an underlying condition that we have no way of knowing about. Buck up. It's just a fish. There is more than one fish in the sea.
Mama Bear

[Skip]

i know..

i have been working tons of hours.. and i have not be able to really watch them as close.. :(


but before i left.. i set up hospital tank.. with some furan 2.. i wil see how he looks when i get home in 9 hours..

can't wait for my nada mini vaction.. 4 days.. NO WORK from any of the 3 jobs!!! YES!!