Question on use of De-Los Powder

[DiscusDrew]

I recieved de-los (dylox-80) powder through aqua-bid, I have read a great deal about the use of dylox and it seems to be an amazing medication. That said, the instructions I got said to dose for entire tank volume once a week for 4 weeks. What Ive read differs from this instruction. Is dylox only active in the water for a short period of time? In which case I would dose as directed, or does the concentration of dylox need to be maintained with each water change (50% daily). I would appreciate some feedback from some of you who have used this medication with success as it has never been my de-wormer or fluke medication in the past.

[Chicago Discus]

I recieved de-los (dylox-80) powder through aqua-bid, I have read a great deal about the use of dylox and it seems to be an amazing medication. That said, the instructions I got said to dose for entire tank volume once a week for 4 weeks. What Ive read differs from this instruction. Is dylox only active in the water for a short period of time? In which case I would dose as directed, or does the concentration of dylox need to be maintained with each water change (50% daily). I would appreciate some feedback from some of you who have used this medication with success as it has never been my de-wormer or fluke medication in the past.


works great but can be a little stressful on Discus when you first start the medication make sure you watch for any adverse reactions..You should redose the amount you take out when you do water changes. Also seems to work better if you leave the tank alone for a few days just syphon out the food and waste and don't over feed
....Josie

[DiscusDrew]

So try to minimize feeding, light, movement, and thus water changes as well. Thus maintaining a saturation of dylox in the water as long as possible? From what Ive read that sounds to be right in line, there just seems to be much debate over when to re-dose. I am not convinced that dylox kills fluke eggs, I do believe it is effective against all other stages and so re-dosing at the correct time is critical so that the larva are killed prior to re-infecting the fish.

Thanks for your feedback Josie ;)

[Chicago Discus]

So try to minimize feeding, light, movement, and thus water changes as well. Thus maintaining a saturation of dylox in the water as long as possible? From what Ive read that sounds to be right in line, there just seems to be much debate over when to re-dose. I am not convinced that dylox kills fluke eggs, I do believe it is effective against all other stages and so re-dosing at the correct time is critical so that the larva are killed prior to re-infecting the fish.

Thanks for your feedback Josie ;)



Its not going to kill the eggs thats why you are treating for a month to get the ones that are not hatched yet

[DiscusDrew]

Well thanks again Josie, like I said I knew it didnt kill fluke eggs and as such re-treatment is necessary.

So stupid me just finally realized I had the perfect reference in Dieter Untergasser's book "Discus Health" where he references the use of masoten or dylox used in the aquarium at the same concentrations recommended now but according to his literature dylox has an effective period of no longer than 72 hours, as such he recommends treatment on day one, little to no water changes for 72 hours, followed by as large a water change as possible, then re-treating at full dose for another 72 hour period. He references the use of two tanks as beneficial and drying out the tanks and moving the fish inbetween treatments, the other option would be to do a follow up treatment within a week after the first two doses with the same treatment course I suppose.

So my questions have been answered and I feel I can dose this medication with the knowledge I have now. Thanks for the help Josie and Im sure all will work out great, I just greatly prefer to do as much research and reading as many opinions as possible before using a medication that I have not had personal experience with. I will follow up with results from treatment.

[Skip]

what is this med?!

[lipadj46]

trichlorfon

[Carolina discus]

For what its worth, I have a pretty good knowledge of De-Los as I have used it for many years. It is an amazing product to get rid of the difficult gill flukes....De-Los is Dylox 80 and NACL...it is safe for young discus to adults and bio filters. The dose to be successful is 4 weeks....it does kill eggs...one of the only products that does. Dont worry about changing any habits, feeding, water current, etc...start with a set gallon say 20 gal water line and mark a lower line for water changes...say 5 gal so you can easily do changes and re dose the removed med....
dose is 1/2 tsp per 10 gal...1/4 tsp for 5 gal.....
the only drawback is depending on the total volume of water you have it can be expensive.....its not the med cost but the duration of 4 weeks .....I know other people may feel the life cycle of gill flukes may be shorter but its not....you need to kill all eggs and flukes to eliminate them once and for all.....
I would recommend dealing with national fish pharmaceuticals directly....they are great to deal with and their meds are the best and pharm grade.
I have always found this product to be safe and effective....much more reliable than PP or Prazi ....
Again, this is just my humble experience with a product that I have used for years.....

All the best

eric

[Carolina discus]

Just to confirm the statement about killing eggs...here is the description from the manufacturer:

De-Los
USE: For control of anchor worms, lice, gill flukes and assorted external parasites on freshwater, Koi and marine tropical fish. Toxic to sharks and snails. Do not use on prehistoric fishes such as arowanas, silver dollars, lionfish. Not for use in tanks which contain invertebrates.

DOSAGE: 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons. Treat once a week for 4 weeks. 1/2 pound (treats 908 gal.) If you are using this product in outdoor Koi ponds, no water changes are necessary. This product will kill fluke eggs, Praziquantel will not.

[Skip]

eric.. it kills ALL Flukes .. eggs and living.. ?

[Carolina discus]

According to the manufacturer....I have talked with the owner in the past about this and they confirmed it is true...I also discussed the time frame for treating as I felt is was a bit long but they confirmed the live cycles and I confirmed it with NC State Vet lab as well...as you know from keeping discus gill flukes are a PIA to get rid of...all fish have them to some extend but stress, shipping, poor water quality ect can help them get out of hand fast...I have tried over the years to do a 2 week treatment with Prazi or other meds and I never git the results I wanted....I think it could be due to the life cycles of the little buggers....I know 2 weeks should be enough on paper but I can only go by experience.....I did some trials in the past and did some disection of fry, young discus and adults and found some gill flukes still present after 2 week cycles with other products (not deLos)....so again I can only go by my experience and what has worked for me....
hope that helps

[jimg]

According to the manufacturer....I have talked with the owner in the past about this and they confirmed it is true...I also discussed the time frame for treating as I felt is was a bit long but they confirmed the live cycles and I confirmed it with NC State Vet lab as well...as you know from keeping discus gill flukes are a PIA to get rid of...all fish have them to some extend but stress, shipping, poor water quality ect can help them get out of hand fast...I have tried over the years to do a 2 week treatment with Prazi or other meds and I never git the results I wanted....I think it could be due to the life cycles of the little buggers....I know 2 weeks should be enough on paper but I can only go by experience.....I did some trials in the past and did some disection of fry, young discus and adults and found some gill flukes still present after 2 week cycles with other products (not deLos)....so again I can only go by my experience and what has worked for me....
hope that helps Have you dissected and scoped after 4 weeks of de-los?

[Carolina discus]

Jim,
Yes, found nothing of concern after 4 weeks with De Los........
Hope that helps..>
Eric

[jimg]

Jim,
Yes, found nothing of concern after 4 weeks with De Los........
Hope that helps..>
Ericnothing of concern meaning 0 flukes?
yes... actual proven treatments with scoping to confirm always helps!!

[lipadj46]

I've used delos for 4 weeks, scoped, found fish to be fluke free, then 2 weeks later flukes came back, confirmed with scraping. What cured my fluke problem is flubendazole with dmso

[Carolina discus]

Jim,
I didnt find anything under the scope...but again, I am only relaying my experiences...I have been very happy with this product and the results....
Again...hope it helps...

Thanks
'Eric

[jimg]

Jim,
I didnt find anything under the scope...but again, I am only relaying my experiences...I have been very happy with this product and the results....
Again...hope it helps...

Thanks
'Eric I do realize it is your experience with it. can't top proven experience! I tried it quite awhile back, but never 4 weeks and never scoped to see results. Next time I run into flukes I will try that. I like flubendazole or 21 days prazi but some tanks fluke free, others just got knocked back. Thanks for you personal experience.
one more thing, did you keep changing tanks and filters or just keep them in a established system?

[DiscusDrew]

I don't know that I buy into the idea that it kills fluke eggs, if this were the case then such a long recommended treatment would not be logical, claims have been made for years that dylox (masoten, trich.) Kills fluke eggs, but much literature disputes this claim as untrue. I'm not doubting your personal experiences, perhaps the flukes you were after were live bearing flukes and not egg laying as that is ALWAYS a possibility, as there is not just one type of fluke. I do appreciate your feedback Eric as I now feel it is necessary to follow the full month of treatment, in which case all eggs potentially laid should eventually be killed upon hatching into a solution of dylox. Thanks again everyone for your feedback.

[lane mechtel]

I learned from eddie on this site that dylox works better at lower temps. dylox worked great in my tank at 80

[jimg]

I learned from eddie on this site that dylox works better at lower temps. dylox worked great in my tank at 80 what form? do you mean anti fluke life bearer?

[DiscusDrew]

From my understanding all dylox compounds need to be administered at temps around 80F.

[lipadj46]

what form? do you mean anti fluke life bearer?

dylox ~= delos ~= lifebearer antifluke ~= trichlorfon. The lower the temp the longer it takes to degrade.

[jimg]

dylox ~= delos ~= lifebearer antifluke ~= trichlorfon. The lower the temp the longer it takes to degrade.

I know they're all trichlorfon, not so sure they are all the same as far as other ingredients that may work along with the trichlorfon.. I know anti fluke had little effect on gill flukes. even at lower temps, I tried it a few different ways and lengths of duration but scoped and saw minimal impact on flukes.

[lipadj46]

I know they're all trichlorfon, not so sure they are all the same as far as other ingredients that may work along with the trichlorfon.. I know anti fluke had little effect on gill flukes. even at lower temps, I tried it a few different ways and lengths of duration but scoped and saw minimal impact on flukes.

I don't think they have any other active ingredients besides the trichlorfon. The LBAF that is around is old and who knows how it has been stored. I found you need to quadruple dose to get the same results as delos powder.

[jimg]

I don't think they have any other active ingredients besides the trichlorfon. The LBAF that is around is old and who knows how it has been stored. I found you need to quadruple dose to get the same results as delos powder.I think they add calcium to the delos, not sure, but the flubendazole wormer in Uk is flubendazole with calcium, known as wormer plus. I'm just going by what I think I remember, so I could be off. I bought and tried the aflb a couple years ago when it was still available. I never tried it at too much more than recommended dose either, I do tend to dose higher than what directions say, but I don't remember exactly how much I dosed.

[lipadj46]

I think they add calcium to the delos, not sure, but the flubendazole wormer in Uk is flubendazole with calcium, known as wormer plus. I'm just going by what I think I remember, so I could be off. I bought and tried the aflb a couple years ago when it was still available. I never tried it at too much more than recommended dose either, I do tend to dose higher than what directions say, but I don't remember exactly how much I dosed.

calcium carbonate is added to kusuri wormer plus to buffer the pH drop from the flubendazole not sure about delos but not sure what it would add as far as the effectiveness.

[jimg]

yeah I read that,I just got a few packages of it. I think there must be something that different companies do though, it dissolves very good in the water not like the supposed 10% fluben. I'll see how this does on a monthly basis.

[Sasha]

So is it believed that PraziPro is no longer a "treatment of choice" for Gill Flukes?

[Eddie]

dylox ~= delos ~= lifebearer antifluke ~= trichlorfon. The lower the temp the longer it takes to degrade.

Truth

[Eddie]

So is it believed that PraziPro is no longer a "treatment of choice" for Gill Flukes?

It can work, just not as effective. Many use the powder form of Prazi with better results. Even then, both are not my choice for treating flukes.

[DiscusDrew]

I've had limited to no luck with prazi against flukes. There's just better options out there, the only thing I really like about prazi is that it seems far more gentle than some other nematode meds.

[Eddie]

I've had limited to no luck with prazi against flukes. There's just better options out there, the only thing I really like about prazi is that it seems far more gentle than some other nematode meds.

Prazi treats cestodes (tapeworms), not nematodes (roundworms).

[Skip]

It can work, just not as effective. Many use the powder form of Prazi with better results. Even then, both are not my choice for treating flukes.

what is your choice for flukes/

[Eddie]

what is your choice for flukes/

Used to be life bearer but its not being made any longer. I havent had to deal with flukes for years so I'd probably have to resort to Delos if thats the only source of Trichlorfon. Trichlorfon is my chemical of choice for fluke treatment.

[DiscusDrew]

Good to know, I knew out treated tapeworms but was under the impression it was effective against other worms. So theoretically cestodes and trematodes?

[Eddie]

Good to know, I knew out treated tapeworms but was under the impression it was effective against other worms. So theoretically cestodes and trematodes?

Yes