Is this video true?

[Luis138]

So I want to set up a discus tank. I will setting up this tank in about a year or so, in the meantime I am trying to absorb all kind of information. Since I am a beginner I will be getting semi adult discus, don't want to risk stunting or killing my less forgiving juveniles. About four years ago I attempted to keep discus and I made all the mistakes you could make. Bought only two, didn't make frequent water changes, attempted them in a planted tank, etc. Sadly my discus paid the price. I want to try them again but I want to do it 100% correct.

I came across this video on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqdrtVYBQDY&list=FLFX1wvZNvxial06PrVsBWFg&index=22&feature=plpp_video. At approximately the 5:00 minute mark he starts explaining about filtration and water changes. He states that with a refugium he has only done about 10 water changes in his 6 year old tank. This goes against everything I have learned here. So my questions are: 1) Did I understand the video incorrectly, 2) am I wrong in thinking that discus need a bigger, more frequent water change or 3) is he 100% correct?

Thank you all for your help,

Luis

[Skip]

1. wrong
2. wrong
3. wrong
4. listen to what you know from SD..

[Luis138]

That is what I though. Thank you for your answer.

Luis

[JamesHe]

Can be done that way with certain hardy fish.
But definately not for Discus.

[Lenin]

10 water changes in a 6 year old tank, is not acceptable for any kind of fish.

[Skip]

Can be done that way with certain hardy fish.
But definately not for Discus.

SHOULD NEVER BE DONE!

fish need daily attention.. like dog, cats and birds.. IMHO!

[JamesHe]

I watch the video. I don't think he said not to do water changes.
he meant that if you do 30% water change per month, Discus will survive, but if you want to grow out the young fish, you may need do 50% water daily.
so nothing he said wrong.

[JamesHe]

Guys, just watch the video, I don't think anything he said is wrong.

[ZX10R]

10 water changes in a 6 year old tank, is not acceptable for any kind of fish.

I have a buddy who has a 75 gallon tank and has never done a single WC in two years. He does not own discus but he has silver dollars and some other fish in there. He claims to have never lost a fish yet and when I seen his tank that water was crystal clear. Crazy I know

[Lenin]

I did a while ago, and saying that a refugium will help you with Nitrates is absurd, water changes are still needed, and I'm talking of experience not just because it comes out of my mouth. Is the same as everyone that comes in here that wants to know what is the least amount of work that they can get away with.

10 water changes in 6 years is wrong even for Goldfish

[DiscusDrew]

Even the largest aquariums are not completely self sufficient or have a perfect "natural" nitrogen cycle. As such water changes should always be necessary, we can do things to improve and help the tank become more self sustaining, but at least to my knowledge it shouldn't be possible to eliminate water changes. Not to mention the aspect of trace elements and such that would never be replenished.

[Elliots]

Here I go again. When I was a kid, about 1960, there was a pet store on Nassau St. in downtown Manhattan that had a tank in the window that they claim, if I remember, nothing was added but food and evaporated water for like 20-30 years. I am not really sure of the details but I am close to right. I should also add that because of the tall buildings around the store there was almost no direct sunlight. I am just saying that because someone does something unusual and it works for them does not mean that it works often or for anyone else.

[DiscusDrew]

A truly self sustaining system would need an awful lot of vegetation to the amount of fish and ultimately would not be very attractive, there's been a lot of attempts at it but its pretty hard to copy the complex biology of nature perfectly.

[Lenin]

Fish can survive, it's a matter of a quality of life, surviving in a concentration of your own feces is not living.

[Cameronv]

I've been watching the ARC on youtube for some time now and it's a great source of information. They refugium uses plants in the sump system. Plants are one of the organisms involved in the nitrogen cycle. As the guy states in the video if your filtration is working properly it will produce nitrate and intermediate form of nitrogen in the cycle. The refugium has a slow current that runs your water across an established root system of a plant that uptakes those nitrates. It's a very smart idea. Although getting this sump to work properly could be troublesome for some people or not for others. Depending on if you can get it established and work properly it could drastically cut down your water changing schedule. Like he said he did 6 WC's in 10 years because the sump works so well in denitrifying ammonia/nitrate/nitrites. His discus look great in that tank btw.

In theory he's 100% correct, in reality it's probably smarter to just do water changes. One route thats plausible is getting the refugium and cutting down on your water changes a lot instead of doing them everyday.

In his experience it works for him (he has a lot of experience). His show tank, the discus in it, and his breeding stock are pretty wicked.

[Orange Crush]

There was another thread started on this forum talking about this same exact video. I will see if I can find it....

[Orange Crush]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/archive/index.php/t-94588.html

[DiscusPunk]

i found the video to be extremely interesting. There is practically NO information out there on sumps/refugiums for freshwater tanks. I plan on upgrading to a 200g with a refugium. But he said his method wasn't to be followed, more water changes are necessary. It's what works for him and his busy schedule and the tanks looks great.

[ashtricks]

The miracle mud guy apparently started an experiment comparing miracle mud refugium (like the one in this video) with other systems.
www (dot) youtube (dot) com/watch?v=EW1JwUCAqaE
I am in the learning process of keeping discus and this was one thing that I am excited about. But sadly there are no updates. I guess something went wrong.

[Cevoe]

In reading a ton of threads and spending way too much time online on this forum for the last couple of years, I can be confident in saying the rule of thumb from the most experienced discus keepers has always been to do things the tried and true way unless you can share another successful way proven over the course of time.
This guy has done exactly that and is immediately squashed out of the chute as being wrong, wrong, wrong.
Not only does he touch on the importance of water changes for juveniles, fry and the breeding pairs that he had in the basement of the store, the stock in the show tank and the sale tanks all look like quality discus.
I am still making my way through this hobby based on the tried and true methods but I don't think the use of refugiums or algae scrubbers should be discounted so quickly.

[DiscusBR]

As pointed by Orange Crush, we are having another discussion about the same video and about the same topic. It is clear to me that one can create a self sustaining system based on sumps/refugiums and/or in a heavily planted tank. Similarly to Elliots´ story, I can tell you that about 20 years ago there was a LFS in Brasilia here in Brazil that had a huge heavily planted tank with huge and beautiful wild Altums. The owners claimed that they had never performed a water change. It can be done. But let´s not allow stories like this to suggest to beginners and other visitors that frequent WCs are not essential to ensure healthy discus. You can succeed in establishing a self sustaining system (If you do, please share it with us here), but it is simply not recommended, especially for a discus tank.

[Kal-El]

Since this guy Breed Discus has anyone have any experience with the guy and his Discus? He is right about everything about keeping Discus he mention in the video. I'm sure with the right setup balance between plants and fish you can limit water change the way he has on his display tank.

[cjr8420]

does every 1 believe everything they hear/read does anyone think its posible he is just lying to make his story/vid sound good.people do it here all the time check the sick fish disease threads all the sick fish there get 50-100% daily WCs yea right BS i tell u cause if they did they would NOT be in the sick disease threads.a healthy discus can survive some pretty bad conditions but never look as good as fish in new clean water.and if u dont want ur discus to look as good as it should then u shouldnt be getting a discus hth

[Cameronv]

does every 1 believe everything they hear/read does anyone think its posible he is just lying to make his story/vid sound good.people do it here all the time check the sick fish disease threads all the sick fish there get 50-100% daily WCs yea right BS i tell u cause if they did they would NOT be in the sick disease threads.a healthy discus can survive some pretty bad conditions but never look as good as fish in new clean water.and if u dont want ur discus to look as good as it should then u shouldnt be getting a discus hth

The difference is he's right and its science. ARC wouldn't interview some shmoe, they're an extremely reputable youtube channel and company. The guy who is being interviewed owns his own discus store and hatchery. You should see his salt water show tank.. That tank is WICKED, and the system that backs it up.. Talk about cash money.