Using aged water

[applekrate]

With aeration and heat only How long is aged water good for. Is there a time frame on use? thnx

[DiscusDrew]

Meh not really, it should adjust as much as its going to within 24 hours, as long as there is airation you should be fine for a while. I never let mine sit past a few days but then again I go through a ton of water so they usually get emptied every day.

[applekrate]

Thanks for your help Discusdrew. I usually use the water in 1-2 days but one time I forget to turn on the heater so I used the tap for refill of the main tank. Then I was curious if there was a time frame to use up the aged water or if I could use the aged water next refill. The next refill would be 3-4 days from the original draw date and I was not sure if that was to old to safely use.

[DiscusDrew]

No problems there, that's not long enough to make any difference.

[brianyam]

Depends if your city uses chlorine or chloramine. If it uses Chlorine, then it can be gassed out pretty fast. Maybe over night is fine. But chloromine is much stronger and doesn't gas out so easily. I have read it takes 1 to even 2 weeks to get out of water. That is why cities now use it so it makes sure the water is clean as it travels longer now.

You should call your city and ask them. I did that, and he told me it would take maybe 1-2 weeks for the chloromine to leave the water. For sure not in 1-2 days.

So no point of aging as it would not be practical to hold that much water for so long if your changing water allot during the week. Just use something like Seachem Prime.

Actually, I have been reading some studies in aqua culture that are using chloramine to control bad bacteria in aquaculture. So it doesn't seem to be bad for your fish like chlorine (which hurts their gills). Might kill some of your good bacteria in your filter though.

Unless your trying to change the Ph, using Prime is the same as "aging" water. Water doesn't "age". All one is doing is trying to get out the chlorine.

[applekrate]

Thanks a bunch for the info brianyam
My Water Co. has told me they just use chlorine only so does this mean once the chlorine is gassed off then there isn't much else to think about? Water does not really have an expiration to speak of? I am new to aging water so I just don't know the simplest stuff.

[Floppy Fin's]

OK... understood about the aging of water, but another question...if one is to maintain a cultured water with foam filters, and no fish in the bare tank, how often should you add a bacterial culture to keep the foam conditioned.. I hope I laid this one out properly.
FF

[applekrate]

When I run the QT tank as you described (only with a HOB filter) no fish just ready to use I add a little food every other day to keep the BB going. Probably size of the tank will affect the amount of food and how often.
OK... understood about the aging of water, but another question...if one is to maintain a cultured water with foam filters, and no fish in the bare tank, how often should you add a bacterial culture to keep the foam conditioned.. I hope I laid this one out properly.
FF

[DiscusDrew]

Ok there's a few things here that aren't quite right or complete. I would strongly recommend not using foods to keep your BB going in an empty tank, this is a huge source of fungal and bacterial growth and the whole goal in cycling a tank is to keep it a new clean environment that had established bacteria. Use real ammonia, dose at 2ppm, stay away from ammonia with surfactants, ace hardware brand ammonia is some of the only usable stuff i've found.

Next, the point of aging water in general is not primarily for the gassing off of chlorine, the primary purpose is to displace the CO2 with oxygen which causes your Ph to stabilize, therefore not getting a swing in Ph with every water change. This may or may not be necessary depending on your water. A SECONDARY benefit of aging is that it gases off chlorine. Chloramine does not gas off at any rate that is practical and as such it can still be necessary to age for the reason I mentioned above. This is why we always recommend to prime the tank regardless when you use aged water, therefore eliminating any risk of either chlorine or chloramine remaining in the water.

[applekrate]

Good point on the food Drew...I will read up on the details of ammonia next time I run the QT tank.

[brianyam]

I have played around water. You should get a test kit. Just put some tap water on the side, and test it every day or so. I tested mine, and the PH doesn't change at all after a few weeks. Then I just stopped testing since anything over 3-4 days I change the water anyways in the tank.

It takes a long time for your PH in tap water to change. Unless your tap water PH somehow changes within a day, I am not sure why it is that important given your going to do regular water changes for your tank anyways. So if you do the math, the water in your tank and in your holding tank will be pretty much aligned in terms of PH if you are changing water all the time. Some discus people change water everyday or twice a day ( you almost don't even need a filter at this rate), which makes it even less likely you need to age water. Basically, the water in your tank is no more "older" than the water holding in your pipes.

Now, if you don't change water for say a month, and use stuff to lower or raise the PH in your tank - then your going to "age" to try and match the new water to the tank. People do this when they have fish like Altum Angels who are VERY sensitive to PH changes from the wild to a tank. So if you have to introduce 6.5 ph or so water to their tank, and slowly wean them off that 6.5 to more 7 plus over a month or so. I have some altums, once you get them use to tap water ph, they are easy.

I wouldn't worry so much about PH is my feeling. If you use tap water all the time and don't play with PH in your tank, it is fine. Sometimes less thinking and less tinkering around, is better.
Especially for domestic discus who have been bred in tap water. I have wilds and i just do straight tap water right into the tank and throw in the prime. Your life is much easier.

Check the seachem website, prime works instantly. Don't worry, your fish are fine. If you read on the web how prime works to break down chloromine, it is all safe.

As for keeping a baren tank cycled, I would just throw in some ammonia in there once in a while, and do regular water test for nitrates (which means you have live bacteria).

[brianyam]

frankly, even if your city uses chlorine and can be gassed out in say 12-24 hours, I would just still use prime and forget about aging. It is just so easy to connect a snake from your tap to your tank, control what temp you want and throw in some prime. Done. Also, you don't have barrels of water everywhere. Just my two cents. No one shoot me. I have 4 tanks, the biggest at 200g and smallest at 75G. Not practical for the work/reward ratio to hold 300G of water all the time when prime just does the same thing.

[DiscusDrew]

You aren't listening, hopefully the OP is. You are incorrect, depending on your tap water, and its carbonate hardness, you will get fluctuations from tap to tank in levels of Ph over a 24 hour period. Not EVERYONE will but a lot do, either you're not understanding what i'm saying which is fact not fiction, or you aren't listening to what i'm saying, either way, read about aging water. There are a ton if resources out there including this site, prior to speaking about things which obviously aren't coming out of experience. If your going to direct people, the research needs to be there to back it up and you can not assume that YOUR tap water is the same as anyone else on here, because is probably not.

[Orange Crush]

Most of the discus keepers on this forum do not age their water to de-gas the chlorine, they use Seachem Prime or Safe for that - it also eliminates chloramines.
Most people here age water to stabilize the pH (de-gas CO2), eliminate microbubbles (which can get trapped in the gills and suffocate the fish), and make the pressure of the water going into the tank the same as what is in the tank. Very important stuff.

[Eddie]

Most of the discus keepers on this forum do not age their water to de-gas the chlorine, they use Seachem Prime or Safe for that - it also eliminates chloramines.
Most people here age water to stabilize the pH (de-gas CO2), eliminate microbubbles (which can get trapped in the gills and suffocate the fish), and make the pressure of the water going into the tank the same as what is in the tank. Very important stuff.

Definitely! When the new water matches the tank water....there will be less issues down the road. Its easy for people to say its not important. But, when their fish fall ill, we'll see how important it is.

[DiscusDrew]

This was all said already. Some listen, some not so much

[Orange Crush]

This was all said already. Some listen, some not so much
Just backing you up buddy. Sometimes people need to hear it from multiple people before they will believe it. Sometimes they will not believe it no matter what. It nevers hurts to try. :)

[DiscusDrew]

Haha muah!! :)

[brianyam]

I have to say got to love the back slapping and "we know best" that always seem to happen on this site. Everyone has advice, there is no clear right for wrong. Sorry, I have no idea how micro bubbles can kill fish and the water pressure somehow killing fish ,does that mean ur wrong?, no, but it doesn't mean ur right either. U could be just doing something like someone going for a MRI every week to check for cancer. Wrong? No, practical? No. I know guys who do thousand dollar fish for years, guys who swim with discus in the wild and I have never heard of water pressure in tap water or bubbles killing fish. I scuba dive and those are the only times I have of water pressure and micro bubbles being that of a threat. Most guys I know have 500g tanks plus, trust me they have $50k in these tanks, and they don't age 500gs of water to change everyday. It is not possible unless you turn your whole basement into a holding water facility.

[Eddie]

I have to say got to love the back slapping and "we know best" that always seem to happen on this site. Everyone has advice, there is no clear right for wrong. Sorry, I have no idea how micro bubbles can kill fish and the water pressure somehow killing fish ,does that mean ur wrong?, no, but it doesn't mean ur right either. U could be just doing something like someone going for a MRI every week to check for cancer. Wrong? No, practical? No. I know guys who do thousand dollar fish for years, guys who swim with discus in the wild and I have never heard of water pressure in tap water or bubbles killing fish. I scuba dive and those are the only times I have of water pressure and micro bubbles being that of a threat. Most guys I know have 500g tanks plus, trust me they have $50k in these tanks, and they don't age 500gs of water to change everyday. It is not possible unless you turn your whole basement into a holding water facility.

Thats cool you know guys who swim with fishes....thats not the topic. Nobody mentioned fish dying due to micro bubbbles or changes in pressure. There is something called stress, which over time will lead to other issues. Constant minor stresses on the fish impact their immune system directly. Not a theory, not a thought...a fact. Now, with a degraded immune system, the fish fall ill to other diseases...some that the fish would normally be able to deal with....WITHOUT the added stress. Nobody is saying YOU MUST AGE your water, it is only highly recommened. In the end, its entirely up to the person. One thing is for sure, I've helped thousands of people deal with disease in their fish, and one common denominator, is they don't age their water.

[ganesan]

I would say is keep it simple.I have an ageing barrel that holds about 500 litres of water and do about 200 litres of water change daily and so there is always some amount of old water in my ageing barrel as after water change I top my ageing barrel with water immediately and start aeration.
I live in tropical country and so do not heat the aged water and if you have a large tank say above 350 litres or so water parameters will not fluctuate often as long as you change about only about 20% water daily removing the detritus.

[brianyam]

Like I said, I am not saying anyone is right or wrong Eddie. I am sure you are an experienced fish hobbyist, as are many people. But there is no "one way". There is no hard science saying aged water descreases the chance of death. In all my years of changing water without using aged water did I have fish die. The only time I have fish die is a:

1. They jump out of the tank
2. I added fish that stressed out (or ate the other fish) other fish. This is the number one stress factor in my opinion.
3. Bacteria from over feeding BH
4. Putting ice cold water during big a water change by mistake. Fish did not die, but were not good for a week or so.

Now, I am sure somewhere it can be shown that aged water might lesson stress to a fish, but what is the amount? Hard to say. It is like when people freaked out when a study came out there is trace amount of pain killer in all tap water such as Asprin. People freaked out. Sure, you are getting some. But then when someone did the math, one would have to drinks pools of water everyday for a long time to get the same amount of asprin in one pill. Same when they said there is trace amount of cocaine in tap water in places like London. People were shocked, but then when they did the math, it is not something to worry about unless your drinking pools of water. So what now, are we going to be worried about our discus getting high on cocaine? Asprin is a blood thinner, will that hurt the discus? There is BPA in all hard plastic (therefore, in your aquarium equipment) is that leaching into your water?

So first point I am trying to say, to go about and have barrels of water everywhere (especially if you have many or large tanks) for the small small chance the micro bubbles or water pressure might cause stress to the fish, when most likely that fish gets 10 times more stress when it sees your shadow or every time you go clean out the poo in the tank doesn't make much sense. If you want to cover every possible scenario, then sure go do it. In the mean time, go and buy a RO system to get the cocaine out of the water as well.


Second point I am saying, I have noticed on this site there is a bunch of people who just love to slam people. I mean, they really seem to enjoy it. I bet they just love going to SD every 10 min to see what they can throw out there. My point is, a person ask for advice, people give it - and let that person decide based on his/her own logic and life needs. Unless someone is recommending to dip the discus in ketchup, I don't think people need to try and slam people all the time, when in fact their way of doing things is not 100% either. Also, don't take it so personal. Great, you love to age and change everday. Doesn't mean someone doing or saying they do it differntly is an attack on your character. I have 20 wilds doing fine, plecos, aros other stuff.. growing well, wilds turning nice and red they way I do it. I am sure your fish are doing well too. There is no one way. For sure aging water doesn't hurt fish. So why not.

In the end, I would say to anyone joining fish, try and keep it simple and work from there. Pick and choose what works for you. Don't go crazy. You want to enjoy your fish, not make it where it becomes so much of a focus your hand starts to shake when you don't have that snake in your hand doing a WC.

[Eddie]

Like I said, I am not saying anyone is right or wrong Eddie. I am sure you are an experienced fish hobbyist, as are many people. But there is no "one way". There is no hard science saying aged water descreases the chance of death. In all my years of changing water without using aged water did I have fish die. The only time I have fish die is a:

1. They jump out of the tank
2. I added fish that stressed out (or ate the other fish) other fish. This is the number one stress factor in my opinion.
3. Bacteria from over feeding BH
4. Putting ice cold water during big a water change by mistake. Fish did not die, but were not good for a week or so.

Now, I am sure somewhere it can be shown that aged water might lesson stress to a fish, but what is the amount? Hard to say. It is like when people freaked out when a study came out there is trace amount of pain killer in all tap water such as Asprin. People freaked out. Sure, you are getting some. But then when someone did the math, one would have to drinks pools of water everyday for a long time to get the same amount of asprin in one pill. Same when they said there is trace amount of cocaine in tap water in places like London. People were shocked, but then when they did the math, it is not something to worry about unless your drinking pools of water. So what now, are we going to be worried about our discus getting high on cocaine? Asprin is a blood thinner, will that hurt the discus? There is BPA in all hard plastic (therefore, in your aquarium equipment) is that leaching into your water?

So first point I am trying to say, to go about and have barrels of water everywhere (especially if you have many or large tanks) for the small small chance the micro bubbles or water pressure might cause stress to the fish, when most likely that fish gets 10 times more stress when it sees your shadow or every time you go clean out the poo in the tank doesn't make much sense. If you want to cover every possible scenario, then sure go do it. In the mean time, go and buy a RO system to get the cocaine out of the water as well.


Second point I am saying, I have noticed on this site there is a bunch of people who just love to slam people. I mean, they really seem to enjoy it. I bet they just love going to SD every 10 min to see what they can throw out there. My point is, a person ask for advice, people give it - and let that person decide based on his/her own logic and life needs. Unless someone is recommending to dip the discus in ketchup, I don't think people need to try and slam people all the time, when in fact their way of doing things is not 100% either. Also, don't take it so personal. Great, you love to age and change everday. Doesn't mean someone doing or saying they do it differntly is an attack on your character. I have 20 wilds doing fine, plecos, aros other stuff.. growing well, wilds turning nice and red they way I do it. I am sure your fish are doing well too. There is no one way. For sure aging water doesn't hurt fish. So why not.

In the end, I would say to anyone joining fish, try and keep it simple and work from there. Pick and choose what works for you. Don't go crazy. You want to enjoy your fish, not make it where it becomes so much of a focus your hand starts to shake when you don't have that snake in your hand doing a WC.

All great information

[yusufm52]

+1 to that.

Yusufm52
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