installing 3D background.

[Elliots]

I am finally getting my tank started. The 3D background, sand, water and filters etc. are going in this weekend. No fish yet. I have 2 AC110 filters and an Eheim 2080. I am still worried about circulation behind the background. If I have the Eheim intakes and re-entry pipes behind the background along with the heaters and AC 110s will I get enough circulation or should I buy a small submersible pump to pull the water out from behind and pump it thru a hose sized hole? Or should I put the Eheim exhaust pipes in front of the background? I will also cut some holes in the background near the height of the sand maybe 2X2", I am thinking 2-3 holes, any other ideas? My tank is 60X24X25 by the way. Now, about the holes, should I leave them open so fish can swim back and fourth thru the holes? It will be difficult to net the fish out from behind the background because my tank will be against a wall and because of the tank's height and width. I have a fine mesh to cover the holes (Screen door size mesh) so fish can't get behind the backgroundif I want to cover the holes. Last question, do I put pool filter sand behind the background or leave that part bare bottom? Sorry for all the questions but I want help in my decisions. The background will be siliconed in place, I want to have everything right the first time. Sorry if I asked these questions previously on different threads.

[DonMD]

I have a 3D background on a 125g tank. I've got 4 openings near the bottom, each one with a plastic gutter guard mesh, about 3/16 inch spacing. The filter intakes are behind (2 Eheims), and since I use inline heaters, I don't have to worry about heaters back there. I do not use a circulating pump back there because I don't have the room.

But I'll tell you this -- crud builds up back there fast, especially if you feed beef heart. I didn't put sand back there, and so I can see the crud settling on the glass bottom. My advice: think like you have two tanks. One in front of the background, and one behind. You have to do regular cleaning on both. I do a thorough cleaning on both once a week, usually on Saturday morning. I've got a slim piece of pvc with a short piece of plastic tubing (about 2 inches) on the end that I use to snake behind the background and syphon out the crud. I've also got a "sponge on a stick" that I use to wipe the glass and background where I can reach in the back. Of course in the front you've just got your regular cleaning maintenance.

I did not block the sides of the tank behind the background so that I can shine a flashlight back there from the side and see how "crusty" things are getting. Just remember, you've now got two tanks to clean. If you've got the dedication, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Elliots]

Don, thanks for the idea of two tanks. I did not think of that. I will use two thermometers in the tank, front right and front left to check the heat distribution. If I have to I'll go to one inline heater and one other. I do not trust heaters so I have two and a separate temp. controller in case a heater locks on I won't boil the fish. If I lose my dedication I'll remove the background.

[Elliots]

bump

[DonMD]

I only use one thermometer, and I've never had any issue with the Hydor inline heaters. When I said two tanks, I was just thinking of the chore of syphoning and wiping down. HTH.

[Elliots]

I am using two thermometers just to check for uniform heating and maybe uniform water circulation. You may never have a problem with a heater. I have had them stick on twice in my life. Don, think about this, if a heater sticks on and boils your Discus how much money and effort is lost? The extra thermostat is $20-$30. It is worth the peace of mind.

[DonMD]

Sounds good.

[Elliots]

Don, good idea, huh. I got that idea from reading SD.

[Elliots]

BUMP

[Elliots]

BUMP Could I get some help here? I think I'm doing the right things I just am not sure due to restricted waterflow from the 3D background. If I did not want to put in the background all my questions would disappear. Even with all my filtering I do not feel right about water flow, I am afraid that I may be constantly recirculating and re-filtering the water behind the background with little effect on the 80-90% of my water in front of the background.

[Frankr409]

I will be doing the same project around the beginning of August. Having formal rooms put into the basement and will be installing my 100 gallon into a wall with the back end hidden from view. I also have ordered a background and have the same questions as you have.

Here is a thread that seems to go along with what Don is saying above.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?83201-155g-planted-Discus-aquarium-with-AquaTerra-3D-background-(picture-heavy).

[Elliots]

Frank, If you are having your aquarium built for you get them the 3D background and have them install it. If you are buying a stock-regular size aquarium you'll have to do it yourself. Thanks for pointing out that thread. I read that thread before on installing a 3D background. That is how I will do it except to rejoin the background where I cut it I will use plastic mesh I bought as re-enforcement and AQUARIUM silicone. Other household silicones have chemicals added to fight kill bacteria and mold, they may also kill fish. If you read my long post, you'll see my problem is how the background effects the water flow in my tank.

[Frankr409]

No it is an existing tank, so I will be cutting. Just curious, where did you get the mesh?

[Elliots]

Frank, Don has Eheims behind his background, I will too. I am just not comfortable with the idea yet. As you probably know large Discus are expensive, I do not want to lose them after I buy them. I will try the tank for a while with other fish. To satisfy myself I will test the water in all four cornors of the tank for a while to make sure I have good circulation.

[Frankr409]

Yes, I will also use an ehiem 2180, just like your 2080. I suspect I will cut outlet holes where the two intake tubes are located. Now about that mesh, where did you say you picked that up at?

[Elliots]

Frank, I got the mesh at my local hardware store. There was a minimum buy of three feet by about two feet. My email is burgred3825@yahoo.com Please send me your address and I'll mail you some. My mesh is much finer that Don's, about screen door size. I will have Kulhi loaches and they will go thru Don's size mesh. I was also thinking of leaving the openings I cut in the background open so the fish can swim back and fourth. My 60X24X25 tank will be against a wall, I may never be able to get fish out from behind the background without draining the tank.

[Swedgin]

To enhance waterflow behind and through the 3d background i made some holes in some places where you cant really see when you look at it, in the deeper parts of the profile. Then i covered them with mosquito mesh made of fiber glass which you can buy at ACE, glued to the background from behind with aquarium glue. I am running 2 filters, one Eheim 2180 and one Eheim 2228. The 2180 has two Intakes, so one is behind the background, one in front of it, covered by a large piece of wood. The outlet for that filter is behind one of these mozzie mesh covered holes, so you dont see it but the water flows into the tank and not just behind the background. The intake of the 2228 is behind one of the mesh covered holes, the outlet is in front of the backgrund, but only reaches 2 inches into the water which makes it basically invisible When looking from the front. In addition i have a small submersible pump on the left side of the tank to help with water movement as both filter outlets are on the right back of the tank (tank is 6.5 feet long). This pump is also directly in front of another one of the mesh covered holes and helps move the water behind the background.

[DonMD]

Just a note on the size of the mesh. Mine is about 3/16 inch square. It's small enough to keep my plecos out, as well as the discus, but big enough not to get clogged with debris. If you use a fiber glass screen intended for windows and doors, I think you will soon find that it clogs very fast and will reduce water flow. Just my opinion.

[Frankr409]

I have some window screens and thought about using that, but it seems a little fine to me. It might plug, and I'm hoping to find something plastic that is solid so can occasionally brush any collections from it.

[Frankr409]

I see, Don got gutter guard. Yes that would seem to be perfect.

[Elliots]

Don, I agree my mesh will clog. I'll have to clean it. That is one reason I was thinking of holes with no mesh so the fish can go back and fourth. The Kulhi Loaches I'll have will probably be able to fit thru your mesh and maybe not return. As I posted earlier it will be near impossible for me to net fish out from behind the background. Kulhi Loaches are fast slippery bottom dwellers, I'll never get them.

Swedgin, what you did is really helpful. Sounds like I'll try to rig something like that. That may solve all my reservations about water flow.

Frank, I don't know about window screens. They are metal and who knows, that may or may not be a problem. Contact me I'll send you plastic screen for free.

[Frankr409]

Elliots That is a generous offer, my screens are nylon, but i am going to look into the gutter guards. I would probably cut inlet holes just in front of where the the input tubes to my 2180 would rest. I am going with a sand surface, so it would be my guess that I could get quite a good flow into the filter input tubes if I put them on the bottom.

[Frankr409]

Ironically, my background arrived ups today. Very nice looking, and much thinner than I thought it might be at only about 2.5 inches thick. Can't wait for the basement to get finished by the contractors!