Dont know what to do next

[m.ingram]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

Had this for about 18 months now .It only attects 1 fish at a time.When the affected fish is week it moves to the next fish.




2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

Fish stop eating go into the corner and slowly waste away over about 10 weeks.Its like they have worms.While they are wasting away they dont look stressed or loose there colour until the last few days before they die.I have treated the affected fish in a qt tank for worms at different time with no luck they still waste away.





3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

I have wormed with Prazi ,Lemvisole and flubendazole at different times and on different fish over the last 18 months .When that didnt work i tryed metro and Huey Hungs super killer and bacteria killer.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish
!75 gallon 15 discus


5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?
I change water 2x 50% weekly .Tanks been running dor 2 1/2 years and it has a fine sand bottom


6 Parameters and water source;

- temp __86___

- ph _6.0____

- ammonia reading _0___

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading __5__

- well water ____

- municipal water __y__

7. Any new fish/plants added recently
no








.

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08-08-2004, 02:09 PM

[xxbenjamminxx]

How big are these 15 fish in the 75g?

[m.ingram]

Sorry thats 175 gallon ony 75

[DiscusDrew]

Still... How big are the fish, and this does not sound like worms to me though there's not a ton of info given. How are the feces? Are they eating when they become effected? Are the other fish eating normally? Did you start with 15 fish or is that how many you have now? How many fish have died in this way that your explaining?

[DiscusDrew]

After two and a half years this is just starting without any new additions or changes to your routine? This somewhat defies logic unless there are symptoms you are not seeing or there is a very progressive internal problem, still, I feel as though something is not being said, can you upload a picture of an affected fish? A picture can be worth a thousand words, and for comparison I would like to see a picture of one or a few of your "healthy"fish as well.

[m.ingram]

All the discus eat like pigs .But once affected the affected one stops eating .There is nothing in the affected fishs poo its clear and after a little while they dont poo at all.
its not new fish that i have added in the past that are being affected its ones i have had fot 18 months or more.
I currently have 15 discus they range from 4 1/2inchs to 7 inches.
Ive lost around 6 discus to this thing over the last 18 months.In the past i havent bought any more fish until i thought the problem had gone but it keeps coming back.
I have added fish over that time and i do qt my new fish as well.
i currently have 2 fish with this problem they are in a hospital tank .The last time i had this was 6 months ago and it has reared its head again.
I hope i have answered your questions but if not let me know thanks.
I will add a picture of the affected fish later on tonight and of my healthy one .

[m.ingram]

I cant upload photos directly to the forum for some reason so here is a link to photos of the 2 affected fish and some of my healthy ones.
Thanks regards Mark
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150907990995976.411657.653590975&type=1&l=233be0d202

[Orange Crush]

When you used the metro how long did you treat them for? and what was the dose you used?

[Orange Crush]

Fish always carry bacteria etc. in their systems. As long as their immune system is strong then they do not get sick from it. but if they get stressed from things like poor quality water, unbalanced diet, being picked on then their immune system gets weak and they get sick.
I think part of the problem is you are not doing enough water changes to support their immune system. Perhaps that kind of stress over a long period of time finally wears them down and they get sick. If they are in water that is not clean enough you might not see any effect at first but over time......make sense?

[DiscusDrew]

Ok we have a start, first off clear poop is not good poop necessarily, but before I jump to anything what are you feeding them? The tank does not seem to be over stocked, but realize that you have fish in there (by what you're telling me) that would be ok with twice weekly water changes, and others that would NOT be ok in my opinion and over time the bacterial and pathogen load of the water will overtake the weakened fish. I also would like to know your dosing of metro, for how long, and what kind you used. Remember that even if you are doing a qt on your fish, unseen pathogens can still transfer to your old stock and this very well could be what is happening... One by one... As their immune systems are weakened.... The good news! I'm guessing we might be able to swing this around my friend. Hopefully we won't need a necropsy but if I had lost that many fish I would have already pulled one to be euthanized so I knew what was wrong.

[m.ingram]

I feed my fish freeze dried blackworm, sera discus granules, nutrafin max,hikari gold discus, frozen and live brine shrimp ,beefheart mix i make my self similar to the one Eddie makes.
I used Metronidazole at 250mg/l per 10ltrs .retreat every 48hrs with a 30% water change before each dose for 12 days.The metro brand that i last used was metrogyl200
I had looked into getting one of the sick fish euthanized for someone to check but none of the vets in my area do that sort of thing on fish.
I will now up my water changes to 3x50% weekly starting from today :) do you think this would be enough

[DiscusDrew]

While sick I would have them at daily water changes right now. I'm gonna have to do some research, I dose heavier and more frequently with metro, 10 days at 400Mg/10 gal. I also up the temp pretty high. This would have been my first recommendation, for now up water changes and I'll think and get back if I think of anything else it could be.

[m.ingram]

Thanks for the help:)

[Eddie]

Could very well be crytobia.

No treatment

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm077

[DiscusDrew]

I was thinking that might be a possibility if metro either didn't work or only worked for a short while... I want going to be the one to suggest it, if that is the case I choose for someone far more knowledgeable than I to make that call. Having a necropsy done would be so beneficial.

[Moon]

250mg/10ltrs is about 1000mg/10gals. The dosage is high. But the interval should be reduced. Treat every 8 hours with half the dosage. Up the temprature to 90. Metro is only effective for about 8 hours at high temps

[nabilbb]

250mg/10ltrs is about 1000mg/10gals. The dosage is high. But the interval should be reduced. Treat every 8 hours with half the dosage. Up the temprature to 90. Metro is only effective for about 8 hours at high temps

Moon,
I have a red melon who is acting exactly like that but no extra tank to treat. can I do this in the community tank? how long?

Thanks

[DiscusDrew]

Moon I'm pretty sure that was a typo, I guess I should have asked but given the med the OP used is highly unlikely that the dosage was that high... I agree though, the treatment was not administered as I would have recommended... As stated previously.

[DiscusDrew]

Moon,
I have a red melon who is acting exactly like that but no extra tank to treat. can I do this in the community tank? how long?

Thanks
Take it our leave it but yes metro is usable in a community tank with little consequence, the issue being that you will end up using a lot of medication. Dose metro at 400 Mg/ 10 gal for 10 days. Do daily water changes of 50% before each dose. I've known several people that treat every 8 hours for a shorter duration but the advice I gave is tried and tested many times over on a lot of different people and it is effective. As moon said, metro is only active for about 8 hours so it is possible to treat differently but with my schedule that has rarely been an option. Sorry my friend I was gone for about a week and I saw your thread but haven't had a chance to respond yet so hope that helps.

[Moon]

Moon,
I have a red melon who is acting exactly like that but no extra tank to treat. can I do this in the community tank? how long?

Thanks
You really need to know what you are treating for. Have you checked the poop? Is the fish eating? Does it look skinny?
You can treat a community tank. However you need to make sure that the medication will not have an adverse effect on other fish in your community tank. If it a big tank you will spend a lot on medication.

[m.ingram]

250mg/10ltrs is about 1000mg/10gals. The dosage is high. But the interval should be reduced. Treat every 8 hours with half the dosage. Up the temprature to 90. Metro is only effective for about 8 hours at high temps

No its no typo i got told to try treat this at 1000ml/10g and treat every 48 hrs by a fresh water biologist.But it didnt work with the fish that was treated .
So now i will set the temp to 90 and treat metro at 400ml with 50% water change daily for 10 days.Thanks again for all the advice.Fingers crossed it works :)