View Full Version : Withdrawn: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1

07-22-2012, 11:02 PM
Well I figured I would get my thread going finally, these are the fry I think I will use for the competition. Since we have time Im not positive as of yet, I have another batch going but almost all sold already, but Im hoping for a batch of WB fry and if that happens by the entry deadline then I may switch to those guys. Without further ado, heres the babies!! (Will edit and add pictures and video when photobucket finishes uploading)

Strain: Dark Angel

Born on: 07/07/12 (This is the first day free swimming)

Feeding schedule: Brine shrimp are fresh hatched twice daily, with 5 feedings happening throughout the day, two from the first batch and three when I get home from work each night. They also started recieving ground FDBW about three days ago (07/19/12), they always peck and eat almost all of the ground worms.

Water Change Schedule: They recieve two daily water changes, the first is a 100% water change every morning AFTER their first two feedings of brine shrimp. They then recieve a 50% water change every night after their last feeding.

Cleaning schedule: Every few days the tank is wiped down entirely and the sponge filter squeezed and rinsed in aquarium water. I do this very often because of all the baby brine shrimp that can accumulate and die off in the filter. Only filtration used is a sponge filter. They are currently in a 10 gal tank, seperated from parents at approximately 12 days.

Current Size: Approximately dime size or a little smaller at two weeks. Batch of fry is right around 30 fish, will get a more accurate count when they get a little larger.


mikula fronts
07-22-2012, 11:27 PM
Congrates do you have 2 pair of dark angels ? your other post said you got the pair on the 7/19/2012... Dark angels not my cup of tea but there are unique gl on the contest

07-23-2012, 12:33 AM
These fry are from that pair, Free swimming date documented from Hans. If I get another batch of fry out of them before the contest dates end then Ill probably use that batch, or a batch of carnations potentially, I havent decided yet. The current batch of carnation x red velvet is due to be sold and I dont have any intentions of keeping them for a year, so maybe the next batch but for now, these guys are it for the contest.

07-23-2012, 02:44 AM
Video of the babies added to the original post, enjoy! Hope everyone likes the baby angels ;)

Ohh and Here is mom and dad, they are very heavily colored as they turned blue and darkened up for the fry prior to attachment. I find the beauty in this strain is their intense ability to change their colors to a far larger degree than we see from most others, especially pigeons.



The Pair

07-23-2012, 06:58 AM
Is mom really that blue wow.

07-23-2012, 07:21 AM
Enter all of them

07-24-2012, 09:15 PM
Just sold the last of the carnation x velvet fry at about a quarter size Skip, BUT you should be happy to know I have some white butterfly that should be back on eggs in a day or two hopefully and if all goes well (you know how it goes, no guarantees in this game) they will most definitely be entered in the competition. I'm going to screen them and everything this time for best chance if success.

At this point in their growth there is easily distinguished two color variants in my dark angel spawn. About 4 or 5 appear a much darker color for some reason and the others are much lighter, I expect those will be more like Dad and might get a few that have the blue like mom. I'll post another video in a few days when a week has gone by to update their progress. For now no changes other than they're growing like weeds. Still feeding artemia 5x per day and ground black worms once per day. Will introduce ground Bill's BH flakes within a few days most likely.

08-01-2012, 02:40 AM
OK everybody, i appologize for the delay but here we go. Week 3 video is UP!!! First part of the video actually shows my Dark Angel pair with a new batch of about 200 or so eggs, pretty good sized batch so hopefully all goes well and they opt to keep them, so far so good. If they do I will start a new thread as Batch 2 of Dark Angel fry. My other pairs have been giving me hell lately so Dark Angels may be my only contestants this year at least.

Anyway, Im going to take care of the typing part of the update while the video is uploading, even though I cover most of this in the video if you listen to the audio. Hope you guys enjoy it!! They're growing at a good rate and everyone is healthy.

Age & Count: Just over 3 weeks FS, went FS on 7/7/12, 22 fry in this batch confirmed

Feeding: Still recieving BBS 6x per day or more depending on schedule, fresh hatched twice daily then incubated. One feeding per day (usually morning since they are hungriest then) is either ground FDBW or ground BH w/ Pro Growth flakes from Bill.

Maintenance: Trying out doing two 95% water changes per day right now to see if there are any effects (I know not all variables are controlled). Tank is scrubbed 2x per week right now due to the large feeding schedule, filter squeezed out every other day (I use bacteria supplements at this stage again because of the high feeding schedule and often cleansing of the tank) Might be excessive but Im pretty cautious when it comes to fry.

Fish & Tank Size: The fish are now larger than dime size and actually look like discus haha, you can tell the difference from my video a week or so ago for sure. They are currently in a 10 gallon aquarium still, but tomorrow is their first moving day (they're busy packing right now)!! 37 gallon is set up and ready to rock, so I will post pictures most likely tomorrow of them in their new (old) tank.

I WANT COMMENTARY, WHAT DO YOU LIKE? WHAT DO YOU DO DIFFERENTLY? DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? The point of this whole thing is to LEARN and grow in this hobby, I expect theres much I do right and much I could improve on and above all that is my main quest in this competition (setting aside winning of course but I have that sandbagged ;) lol....)

Thats it for right now, video is posted. Enjoy!!

08-01-2012, 03:10 AM

08-01-2012, 04:34 AM
Fun and informative thanks and looking great. :)

Second Hand Pat
08-01-2012, 08:37 AM
keep posting.........

donnievoks, this is not a good place for you to boost your post count.

Second Hand Pat
08-01-2012, 08:40 AM
Well done Drew, you will be upping the documentation standard if you keep this up, but that is a good thing. Your little guys look great and congrats on the new dark angel spawn. Are you going to let the parents give this batch a go?

08-01-2012, 02:21 PM
That's the plan I think, we'll see how it goes. God knows we don't get to make that decision sometimes haha but I'll let them give it a go. Only potential problem I foresee is that Dad can get pretty aggressive.... Her tail was clipped and finally grown back from the last batch. I'll try to document everything the best I can, you know how it goes sometimes time is a killer. I'm excited to track this next batch though if all goes well, then I'll actually catch attachment and everything as it goes by, hopefully they give me the opportunity!!

When you said I'll be upping the documentation... Is there something i'm forgetting that I should include for everyone?

Second Hand Pat
08-01-2012, 02:36 PM
...When you said I'll be upping the documentation... Is there something i'm forgetting that I should include for everyone?

Nope, that was just a nice video on your BBS hatchery :) If I get another go with batch B2 I will include more documention on that batch in my homesteader section since I do these wilds a bit different.

08-01-2012, 02:42 PM
Ohhh i'm sorry hun, I reread what you said and I get it now, thank you :) I personally would love to see the differences, particularly given or future potential. Getting into breeding us such an amazing and learning experience. I hope this competition in general eggs more people on in moving that direction. It certainly is a beautiful part of this hobby. It can be so tough to make the time but when you see those cute little things every morning you can't help but keep going!

Second Hand Pat
08-01-2012, 03:22 PM
Actually Drew the wording was a little sloppy but glad you caught what I meant, :D and yes, I am in many ways enjoying the breeding aspect especially with the wilds and I share the same wishes at yourself regarding the hobby and moving people in that direction. I have literally cried over my fish twice, first time when I watched my first pair spawn and the second when I came home from work and my first wild spawn had attached. Amazing hobby.

08-01-2012, 04:51 PM
lol I cant say Ive shed a tear but they sure have turned around a piss poor day on more than one occassion :) Gotta love these little guys, but then I look back at where this all started.... a little 55 gallon tank and a few discus and a whole lot of lessons.... now two years later a ROOM full of fish popping out babies like its going out of style, and I couldnt be happier, even with the work load. The lessons still keep on rolling in but aint nobody dieing under my roof and now the lessons come in how big the fish turn out and how bright and beautiful their shape/colors are. Ill take these lessons all day long :)

08-02-2012, 11:15 PM
Small update on batch 2 that was pictured in the beginning of my last video update.... Its gone.... I came home today to two huge dark angels beating the living crap out of each other. Dad was incredibly defensive of the eggs (mom had to be removed on the first go around but not until later) and mom was not giving up anytime soon. Thus is the life of a breeder but I scratched the whole batch. They are still in QT technically so I wasn't willing to pull mom and put her in one of my community tanks, so my only other option was to remove the eggs. I guarantee they would have broken through a divider so it want worth it. I was damn near crying as I wiped about 150 viable eggs down the drain. Sad day in the fish room but batch one is starting to show a beautiful pink color so I'm pretty excited to get next Weeks update up. I still have two Weeks to enter more fry so hopefully they lay again in a week and I'll be ready to move mom right away.

Second Hand Pat
08-02-2012, 11:20 PM
That sucks Drew :( I would check with Al about entering two batches of fry from the same parents. One of the draft rules disallowed that and hence why I cannot enter another batch from my Batch B parents unless I scratch the first submitted batch.

08-03-2012, 12:24 AM
Ahhhh ok well maybe if I get one from these guys again I'll just track it in my homestead. That makes sense I guess. I've got carnation x velvet and white butterflies pecking and shaking after their water change tonight so hopefully fingers crossed I'll be able to enter some of their fry. Thanks for letting me know. I'm not sure if I'd be willing to scratch the first batch of dark angels when I've already tracked them for this long, but I guess it depends.

08-09-2012, 02:38 AM
Ok everybody!! Happy One Month Birthday to the Dark Angel Batch #1 fry!!! This months update is short and sweet, little has changed but what has will be documented here. Sad to say but for those that didnt see mom of this batch jumped out of her tank last night, tiny hole I thought would never happen and she proved me stupid. SO, Dad is with one batch right now and this is their first batch, so hopefully I get a good blue female out of this group because mom was incredibly unique, my only salvation is that i got two batches of fry before she jumped. I plan to line breed and try to create a truly "blue" pigeon. So things have changed but hoping the best for these guys.

Water Change and Maintenance: I have moved them to a once daily almost 100% water change, I will never not do a daily change with fish this young but they are reasonably large now so I'm done with the twice daily water changes, we shall see the results. Cleaning done every 3 days or twice a week. They have been moved to their new 37 gallon tank for growout.

Feeding: Baby brine shrimp cut to only one batch per day, most feeding are done with Bill's BH flakes, and FDBW.

Size: Pictured against a quarter in this weeks video, most are at least that big now, with some a little smaller and some a little bigger. Right on track by my standards and doing great!

Age: One Month Today!!! Happy Birthday!!!

ENJOY THE VIDEO GUYS!!! I look forward to any recommendations or commentary!!


08-09-2012, 03:14 AM
They are looking good! Good luck with your blue pigeon idea!

08-09-2012, 04:44 AM
You are very thorough with your videos. looks great

Second Hand Pat
08-09-2012, 09:36 AM
They look good Drew, even see hints of purple and pink.

08-09-2012, 11:59 AM
Just barely starting to show color, so cool though because I can tell there are some darker ones (those are mama number two's hopefully lol). Thanks for the comments guys, trying my best to make it a learning experience for me and hopefully others. When are you picking out your 8 fish Pat? I know yours are older than mine, I'll probably wait another month at least I think.

Second Hand Pat
08-09-2012, 12:03 PM
Drew, I have already picked my eight fish. They are in the last posted video which I took after I moved the others out so the eight fish look a bit unhappy and are huddled in the back corner of the tank.

08-09-2012, 12:30 PM
Yeah fry are never crazy about that, I'll have to go watch. Your just too popular Pat (I think you're sweeter than me lol), going through 10 pages sounded so rough. I was watching religiously then I got dazed and confused lol ;). They have to be several inches now right?

Second Hand Pat
08-09-2012, 12:46 PM
Drew, my contest thread is just older. :p Just go to the last page or so unless you want a go through the whole thing.

Several inches, I wish, maybe two at this point. LOL. They are Wild Tefe F1s or a wild green which are known to be slow growers. Even the largest of my batch A which is coming up on six months are maybe/almost four inches. These guys grow out over a two year period and maybe mature at 18 months.

08-09-2012, 04:55 PM

Just curious, do you, or did you see alot of red starting at the dorsal and anal fins and extending into the fins? I doubt the darker color fry are going to turn out like mom, but we will see. What percentage do these darker fish make up of the total batch?


08-09-2012, 05:38 PM
Don't crush my dreams Rick! Lol no seriously I value your advice and opinion, was kinda hoping you'd stop by eventually. At their younger stage yes I did see red in the fins. I don't see much now though but I am red/green deficient so its possible I just can't see it. The total darker group is approximately 15-20% of the total batch. Were you leaning towards sex differential? I'm curious about your thoughts, and what brought on the question about red in the fins?

08-09-2012, 05:42 PM
Btw i'm slightly pissed at you, you just HAD to bring in some other dark angel fry to the competition huh? LOL No i'm excited about that batch actually. I don't have blue diamonds so I can't play with that cross and i'm very interested to see the results.

08-09-2012, 09:29 PM

It is my guess (and it is just that, a guess) that you might get 1-2 of the dark type out of a spawn. With what Hans has shared with his knowledge of the genetics of the strain (silver pigeon x Blue diamond x Marlboro red), I think it is highly unlikely that the DA's will breed 100% true.

Perhaps the Dark ones you are seeing are either missing the BD gene, or something to do with the coloration that in inherited from the MR. At any rate it will be extremely interesting to compare your results breeding two dark angels to my results breeding a Dark Angel to a Blue diamond. I am also getting a jumbo Blue Ss from Hans this saturday, of which I plan on breeding to the double dark angel I have. Comparing all three spawns should give a pretty good idea of the basic genetic makeup of the Dark Angel.

I asked about the coloration of your fry as mine are nearing two weeks and I am suprised to see the amount of red in them, but I expect this will fade just as you have witnessed with your group.


08-09-2012, 09:32 PM
Btw i'm slightly pissed at you, you just HAD to bring in some other dark angel fry to the competition huh?

LOL, there is a funny story behind that and I can honestly say the fact that I even have this pair is purely an accident. These are not the fish I had picked out from Han's NADA show fish, but a purely honest mistake was made and these are what I recieved. ;) Too date I haven't even had the Dark Angel and Blue diamond in a breeding tank, just pulled eggs from the community tank and let a foster pair raise them.


08-09-2012, 11:29 PM
Very interesting, sounds right in line with my conversations with Hans about what a dark angel's genetic makeup is... From those three batches we should get a very good idea, and now this competitions value just grew immensely for me. As you may have heard or read, I lost that female and as you know I was very keen on finding a fish similar to yours and that was the closest me and Hans were able to get, so pretty shitty honestly. On Tuesday I am bringing in a cobalt pair, pigeon SS pair, and jumbo male pigeon SS... I'm planning on trying to (purely for experimentation) cross the cobalt with the male dark angel I have left over, assuming he can't fine a dark angel female by the time my order ships. I know it isn't ideal because of the stress bars but it should again give insight into the dark angel regardless.... Very interested to pursue this with you, I think the dark angel holds some potential and all of this may give us a direction to move. Nice to have someone else's tanks to have to compare against at the same time... Double the progress in half the time. I truly hope eventually you can get your "double"dark angel to lay successfully, it will teach and show a lot.

08-10-2012, 12:31 AM
It's my belief that the dark angel and mercury are nearly identical, with the dark angel just having a bit of Marlboro thrown in the mix. While a solid blue PB discus would be cool, I think a real challange would be to create a true blue checkerboard pigeon.


08-10-2012, 02:32 AM
I'd love it but that has to be 20 years or more... First step being a blue pigeon I would think, unless the genetics could simultaneously be intertwined with another pigeon's genetics perhaps.... checkerboard, pigeon blue, etc... I need to take some classes in genetics. I'm finding more and more of an interest but I need the base science... Not necessarily as it pertains to fish to begin with.

08-10-2012, 01:54 PM
Great looking juvies Drew. The colors are starting to come out very nicely. I hope my Dark Angel fry look as good.

08-22-2012, 05:02 PM
I was breeding these a few years back... there is a lot of mix in the genes you can make them very pink if you breed away the top layer of blue but its not something i have continued with, some you may find look like white butterfly i even had some throwbacks of what looked like snow leopard but pigeon base obviously.


Pink dark angel.............. blue diamond....................dark angel

08-25-2012, 12:48 PM
Well anyway.... WEEK 6 UPDATE!!! Sorry for the delay guys but its just been really busy but these guys are growing right on track to be about 2" by 10 weeks. Right where I want them to be. Enjoy the video guys, as always would love feedback both good and critical, after all thats what makes this competition worthwhile. Lets Learn!!

Strain: Dark Angel
Age: 6 weeks FS
Feeding: 6x per day, 4x with autofeeder filled with FDBW, BH Flake, Spirulina Flake, Seafood Flake, then I also feed once in the morning whatever I feel like, and in the evening they get whatever is left from the day of live BBS. They are no longer dependend on the BBS but it gets good nutrition so they get about everything they could get right now.
Maintenance: Water changes done 100% per day one time, tanks are wiped daily, and the filter cleaned weekly.


Chicago Discus
08-25-2012, 12:58 PM
Look-in good Drew they look like they are right on mark.....Josie :)

08-25-2012, 05:39 PM
Looking good Drew!

08-25-2012, 08:47 PM
Very good Drew, I see several in there I would love to have. I really admired some of the Dark Angel showfish at NADA, hope you end up with some that look like those!

08-26-2012, 10:57 AM
They are looking great.

Are you going to sell locally or ship ship as well?

08-26-2012, 07:21 PM
Got a ? here are you looking to get the bluest fish or some of the pinkish or both .It looks like you have both just wondering I too love PBs I love the DAs.This contest is great.

08-27-2012, 12:13 AM
Well thanks for the compliments everybody, I truly appreciate the feedback! Ive been very happy with this batch and honestly have kind of babied them a little just because I lost dad to the group (if you recall the ones that managed to jump a tank), so I'm doing everything possible to raise these guys right and give every opportunity for a similar fish to turn up.

They are looking great.

Are you going to sell locally or ship ship as well?
Poco, I usually sell local and work my way out, but I am capable of shipping and all set up. Usually because it cuts my cost I sell as much locally as possible; however, its getting to be about time to expand that. Ive established somewhat of a market here but Im confident in my ability and quality enough that Im willing to spread the product a bit. Keep you eye out if interested, I will be posting in the fry for sell section when Im ready to get rid of these guys, I think I want just a little longer with them.

Got a ? here are you looking to get the bluest fish or some of the pinkish or both .It looks like you have both just wondering I too love PBs I love the DAs.This contest is great.
I will keep a mixture of the bunch, but almost every fish that shows potential to fill out in a blue color I will keep (regardless of if they are part of my 8 for the contest) simply because I want every chance to line breed towards creating a blue pigeon blood. That said, I enjoy some of the more pink DA I have seen so my taste varies and I will keep the ones that show the most potential for my breeding program, regardless of their color. For the contest, obviously Ill pick the 8 best all around fish.

08-27-2012, 12:15 PM
They look great Drew! Thanks for the feeding schedule and types of foods info. I'm hoping to try my hand at this in another few weeks so I need to gather as much good intel as possible before then. =)

09-14-2012, 03:38 PM
OK guys, sorry for the delay in the last few weeks, but I had some family issues I needed to attend to and I had to go to Wisconsin to do so. I truly appreciate your patience so here we go!.. We are down to the competition 8!!!...

Strain: Dark Angel

Age: Approximately 9 weeks

Quantity: Final 8 for competition, in 40 gal.

Feeding: Lots of FDBW, lots of Bill's BH flake, lots of Spirulina Flake, and garlic mixed in. Just starting to introduce pellets and they always get occassional different meals just to change things up. They are fed 6x per day, 4 by auto feeder with mix.

Maintenance: 100% or as close as possible 1x per day, tank is wiped daily, filter is cleaned as I feel necessary at this point since the numbers have been reduced.


09-14-2012, 04:01 PM
Looking great Drew.


09-14-2012, 04:09 PM
Very Nice! they look pretty happy.

I hope everything goes well for you grandpa.

09-24-2012, 03:19 PM
Week 10 Update!! Thanks to all who have been following on youtube and on simply, I truly appreciate your interest. I took some other videos today and will be creating threads for each batch in my homestead section before too long, that will capture all the life stages of the discus.

On the competition, everything the same as the last update except for they have gotten HUGE!! 10 weeks and Im really enjoying this because usually a vast majority of my fish are sold by this point, so its kind of refreshing growing out fish again through the entire process. Something different for me when this can become all too routine sometimes, but this allows us to see and learn from each step along the way, and learn to relish the whole process the fish goes through from a tiny wriggling speck to an adult breeding discus. Such a beautiful thing. Enjoy the video!!


09-24-2012, 03:40 PM
They look great Drew

Second Hand Pat
09-24-2012, 03:51 PM
Hey Drew, super nice fry. They look awesome.

09-24-2012, 07:12 PM
Drew those are good looking fish.

09-25-2012, 06:33 AM
Beautiful looking juvies Drew, awesome shape.

09-29-2012, 11:39 AM
Looking good Drew, I keep watching to see any differences in color deveolpement between your fish and mine, and so far they look nearly identical after allowing for the difference in age.

good work

09-30-2012, 05:20 PM
Got another pair with fish on their backs rick. So I will track those guys for us too . Same mom as this batch, different dad, so they won't have that strong blue parent in the mix. Should be a good standard dark angel batch to use as a constant. Thanks for the compliments everyone. As always I'm more than open to recommendations.

09-30-2012, 08:19 PM

Just curious, did you take a hard measurement at two months? (ie: actually use a ruler/tape measure)


10-02-2012, 11:47 PM
Sorry about the delay, I just took another video to put up for the week. new camera so figured Id give it a shot.

Rick, I took a hard measurement when I sold the rest of the batch for some customers but I wasnt thinking about the competition at the time so I completely forgot to get a hard measurement. Next week Ill flop one out with the update and make sure to snag a picture, deffinitely easier to do with two people.... My hands tend to be filled when Im in the fish room. Anyway, Ill be sure to get some "proof" up soon enough. The quarter is no longer a suitable point of reference.

10-03-2012, 08:48 AM
Drew you must be very happy with this group! they look fantastic :)

10-04-2012, 08:27 AM
No big deal I was just looking to compare growth rates between our two batches at a fixed point (ie 12 weeks, 14 weeks etc).

10-04-2012, 10:18 PM
Wanna do it at 12? That's next week on my batch so that will work perfect for me. If you would rather a differenttime let me know.

10-05-2012, 10:45 PM
That would work great, I am curious to see the difference between a DA x DA growth compared to a DA x BD growth. I would'nt think there should be any difference.....


10-10-2012, 03:54 PM

10-10-2012, 04:01 PM
Very Nice Drew. Your background is tripping me out. I love it.


10-10-2012, 04:05 PM
I'm getting so frustrated! I have so many videos to attach but my computer is down and is a giant pain to do on my phone.

10-10-2012, 04:42 PM
Very nice ... love their color


10-10-2012, 04:47 PM
OK Apparently the best solution was to fix the computer so here we go! Sorry for the delay in this video guys, and check out the two new batches that I am currently uploading to be transfered into my homestead section. The other batches will be fry for sale in the future. Will track progress and post when ready to go!

For this update, all remained the same. And Rick Ill flop one out by the end of this week which should turn out to be week 13 if I am correct, the free swimming date is 7/7/12 if I remember correctly.


10-10-2012, 04:49 PM
Drew, they are looking great!

10-10-2012, 05:17 PM
They look to be growing well. Nice job.


10-10-2012, 05:35 PM
Drew those are really nice!


10-15-2012, 12:21 AM
Looking healthier than any other competition fish this far. Beutiful!

10-15-2012, 01:25 AM
Looking good!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10-15-2012, 01:40 AM
Thanks for the compliments guys, it means a lot to me especially with where I am at with moving this whole breeding thing forward. It gives me the confidence to do so.

Harry Marsh
10-15-2012, 06:23 PM
They look wonderful

Particularly in light of the fact that you actually followed the rules and narrowed to 8 at two months
That is not easy on young fish: these guys must be healthy and happy

10-16-2012, 12:07 AM
Nice pups Drew! Keep up the great work!

10-18-2012, 10:23 PM
Looking nice. I especially like the ones that have the greenish sheen.

10-22-2012, 05:22 PM
Ok folks, I suppose Im at about week 15 now, and for this update no video, Im just going to upload a few pictures of a few fish being pulled and measured. Smallest is right around 2.75", largest around 3.25". I also need to report a loss, Im now down to 7 fish. Obviously no disease sickness or miscare, I couldnt afford that haha. I have a tiny tiny opening where the autofeeder drops food, somehow one of my little guys found it. Unfortunate but a reality in this case, still debating ways to eliminate that potential because I simply dont desire to eliminate the autofeeder, as that combined with my water change schedule and cleaning schedule is what allows me to grow the fish out quickly. Im getting about an inch a month which is exactly on track with what I expect in growth rates with this strain at this point in their journey. SO, Rick, heres the photos of measurements finally!




10-22-2012, 05:25 PM
congrats Drew!!! they're growing like weeds. kinda nice to 'out of the water' shots - interesting coloration developing :)

ps - sorry about your loss....maybe it was just a fluke.

10-22-2012, 06:01 PM
splendid job

10-22-2012, 07:12 PM
Great looking juvs!


10-23-2012, 01:01 AM
A jumper is always a fluke, but I can develop a way to fix the auto feeder problem, I just need to think about it a bit but I think Im going to make a gravity tube that can feed them from the feeder. That way its hard and I can cover the remaining area so there zero possibility of escape..... They get pretty excited when they eat apparently... and will eat about every thing you throw at them in about two seconds flat. Ill get a new video up soon, I should have taken one before I pulled them out to be measured.

10-23-2012, 01:44 AM
They look great

10-23-2012, 02:56 AM
Looking great Drew!

10-31-2012, 12:49 AM
looking really nice. jumpers suck! lost one of my piwow red turks to jumping last week.

10-31-2012, 11:49 AM
Your doing a great job Drew.


10-31-2012, 01:01 PM
Awosome growth Drew.

10-31-2012, 01:57 PM
Thanks for the compliments guys, Kevin, I look forward to your trip down to see the fish room/hatchery. Im sure you'll find something to go home with :).

10-31-2012, 02:50 PM
Drew, you're doing a great job growing these guys out. 3" in about 3-4 month is excellent growth rate... Love that they are starting to color up...

10-31-2012, 02:57 PM
So this strain grows quicker than others? These fish are growing wayyyyy faster than mine;(

- oz

10-31-2012, 09:23 PM
You may blame it on the strain if you like, but that generally isnt the case. Some grow slower/faster than others, but more has to do with their care.

11-04-2012, 05:16 PM
Ok guys, heres a new video. Kinda lost track of time so I looked at a calendar, these guys are just under 4 months old so about 16 weeks right now. They look great and are growing at a good rate. Usually about half way through a fish's first year I will do a clean out of the fish, then from there forward never touch them with meds again. While I do actually agree to an extent with the use of medication please realize that I am very strict on when and what medication I use, the water quality while medicating is being done, etc. That said within the next few weeks I will run them through about a one month process in medicating the tank SAFELY and effectively. I see too many people throwing meds in the water in this competition, my fish grow quickly because of their maintenance schedule, feeding schedule/diet, and water change schedule all are in a delicate balance and kept up on well. So I am going to list what I do as essentially a very uncommon, once in the fish's lifetime clean out, I have been doing this for some time, I pray nobody takes that to mean they need or should be throwing meds into their own tanks without at the very least consulting someone first. My fish room has a microscope, and that is key in maintaining a healthy hatchery.

So heres the course of what I will/do run on my fish when they reach about this size. Note the amounts of the medications and longevity of treatment is different from what I generally recommend in the disease section for a fish that is suffering from an infestation/disease and poor water conditions. This treatment course is for a healthy fish with an immune system that is keeping all parasites/pathogens in check.

Week One:
1)Gill Flush, Skin Scrape, and Feces Sample taken and analyzed
2)Metronidazole @350mg/10gal for 7 days
3)Prazi-Pro Started @ regular dosage (1/4tsp/20gal if I remember right) for 7 days (done at same time as metro)

Week Two:
1)Gill Flush, Skin Scrape, and Feces Sample taken and analyzed
2)100% water changes done daily

Week Three:
1)Gill Flush, Skin Scrape, and Feces Sample taken and analyzed
2)Piperazine Powder @ 1/4 tsp / 20 gal (1g/20gal) On Days 1, 3, 5.
3)Water Changes done daily at 50%, on days where full dose is not administered (days 2, 4, 6) replace only the medication lost in water change
*****IF GILL FLUKES WERE DETECTED (my fish room is generally clear of all flukes) I USE FLUBENDAZOLE NOT PIPERAZINE*****

There is a time and place for medication, please do not misconstrue what I am saying, this is basically a pro-active treatment done in the interest of maintaining consistently healthy stock and aquariums. Also so that the fish I sell are always high quality and free of potential problems on arrival at their destination.

Anyway, HERES THE FISH!!!!


Kingdom Come Discus
11-11-2012, 05:09 PM
They are looking great Drew. Thanks for sharing your method on cleaning up your fish.

11-11-2012, 06:22 PM
They do look very good - and I'm impressed with your "clean up" regimen, thanks for sharing.
Quick question for you.....what does "Gill Flush" entail? Just curious :)

11-18-2012, 02:04 AM
Heres the update.

P.S.- Trish, I will get back soon and let you know how I do a gill flush, I dont have time to type right now but I wanted to get this video posted so one thing down. When I get a minute Ill write out how to get a good gill flush without hurting the fish....


11-18-2012, 02:45 AM
Two thumbs up. Looking great!

11-18-2012, 06:56 AM
well done Drew! their color is really starting to show :).

P.S.- Trish, I will get back soon and let you know how I do a gill flush, I dont have time to type right now but I wanted to get this video posted so one thing down. When I get a minute Ill write out how to get a good gill flush without hurting the fish....no worries Drew - I was just curious, hadn't heard of this before.

11-18-2012, 10:57 PM
Looking good Drew!

11-19-2012, 05:40 PM
Drew they are really nice fish!

12-03-2012, 09:07 PM

12-05-2012, 10:48 AM
Drew they are looking great.

Jeff O
12-05-2012, 11:06 AM
They look great and they are showing beautiful color! Great job...

12-05-2012, 02:12 PM
Beautiful fish great job!

12-05-2012, 08:15 PM
Awesome job Drew. Nice coloration starting to form.

12-07-2012, 01:24 PM
Well these guys have different parents (Same mom, different Dad) than my other batches but I have 2" DA up for sale in my sponsor section, and in the near future Ill sell off some more from this batch as well. So if your interested in bringing drewbus discus home let me know. Shipping available.

12-10-2012, 09:51 PM
Ok guys, it saddens me but here it goes....

For a few different reasons I have opted to withdraw myself from the competition. It has been a pleasure and just so everybody is aware I will still pick two or three of these guys that I will be keeping and growing out for the year, which I will continue to track for the purposes of record keeping and teaching. It will be up to the moderation of this section to determine if they choose to delete the thread but one thing even I will make entirely clear, I WILL NOT BE ELIGIBLE FOR ANY AWARDS OR JUDGING. I hope you all can understand and I hope the moderation will at least allow all the work Ive put in to stay here so that hopefully someone will gain something from it. Its been my pleasure and it pains me that I have to do this.

1) I simply dont feel quite right about being a sponsor and being eligible to compete.
2) Until I increase my grow out area in the new shop, I need to maximize the useablity of my existing space. 8 fish in a breeder is not what I generally do to grow out my fish, and I need to be fair to them and the rules of this comp.
3) I need the time and energy to focus into my business right now, with so many moving pieces right now I don't want to sacrifice any of my fish's well being, or the well being of this forum and competition. I appreciate the opportunity this competition has given and wish I could justify staying in it. But for now I need to put my attention to my investment and hopefully starting a bright future for my business. On the bright side, all your chances just went up of winning!!! So play hard, ethical, and fair everyone!!

All the best,
Drew Harris
Drewbus Discus

12-10-2012, 09:53 PM
And yes, that means I will have 5-7 4" Dark Angel's available, which I will post in the proper area when Im ready to sell and decide who I want to keep.

12-10-2012, 10:34 PM
It's hard to see you withdraw the contest, but wish you the best for your fish business

12-10-2012, 11:06 PM
Thanks Ryan my friend, on the plus side maybe I can fly you up here to take done pictures for me now! Lol I REALLY need a good photographer.

12-10-2012, 11:18 PM
lol ... wish I can be there someday :)

12-11-2012, 02:25 AM
Thats funny, I wish more sponsors/old hands would have gotten involved myself.

12-11-2012, 02:57 AM
Sucks to hear Drew, but I think we all understand or hope we all can. Best wishes to the new business!

Second Hand Pat
12-11-2012, 03:43 AM
Understand Drew but sorry to see you withdraw.

12-11-2012, 03:56 AM
Thanks for the support guys, I guess my thinking Rick was that the resource pool for reasons of equality should be relatively equal, but I suppose business or not that varies no matter what realistically. I do wish more people had gotten involved period and this competition did mean something to me so I really wish I had another alternative, but with shipments coming in, fish going out, new batches being created (God bless the gift of life right lol), there just wasnt TIME to come up with a solution. And if Im going to do anything Im going to do it right, so I figured if I cant put my all into it then I certainly dont want to be unfair to anyone else in the contest.

12-11-2012, 09:11 AM
Drew, say it ain't so. OMG I was hoping to see the dark angels in full color and in the finals. But totally understand your reasonings. We might have to talk about the 4 you have. Send me a PM with info when you have time.

12-11-2012, 10:31 AM
I would think that finishing the competition and possibly winning or finishing strong would be a good PR move on the part of a new sponsor......Much better than a Drewbus Discus-DNF. :) Just giving you a little bit of grief but still something to consider...


12-11-2012, 02:59 PM
My fish have always been raised well, valid point though and if it was an option I'd stay in. Jeff ill let you know when I'm ready, if you send me a your zip I can shoot you a quote. It seems most everybody but you understands the reasoning Rick lol. Nah I truly wish I could have stayed, and yes good PR, but so is running an ethical solid business providing quality fish. And I think people get that.

Harry Marsh
12-11-2012, 03:06 PM

Tank space is at a premium...and raising 8 fish to adults in subpar conditions is not fun/easy to do.
I commend you making the difficult decision and being up front with it.

Someone will snap those up :)

12-14-2012, 09:12 AM
THis contests requirement of a long term commitment is a definite hard one to meet for many people. One of the things I hoped this contest would show is just hard it is to raise a group of discus to adulthood..space and time constrants are one of many factors that make it so.

Sorry to see Drew Bow out, but happy that he gave it a shot and did as well as he could. Best of luck Drew!


ps.. Rick,,

I wish more sponsors/old hands would have gotten involved myself. You and me both.... but I am not surprised by it.

12-15-2012, 01:29 PM
Thanks Al, my hands just have to focus on the task at hand and allow my business to thrive. Your help in that matter has been amazing by the way. Thanks again to everybody for the support and I look forward to a future with this forum and also its members.

Chicago Discus
01-21-2013, 12:18 PM
THis contests requirement of a long term commitment is a definite hard one to meet for many people. One of the things I hoped this contest would show is just hard it is to raise a group of discus to adulthood..space and time constrants are one of many factors that make it so.

Sorry to see Drew Bow out, but happy that he gave it a shot and did as well as he could. Best of luck Drew!


ps.. Rick,,
You and me both.... but I am not surprised by it.

I couldn't agree more ...... Josie