HELP Discus not eating ... but pairing and spawning....

[jeromeit]

Hi all,

I'm new to discus keeping, I recently acquired 3x 5inch discus (PBxTefe green mix) about two weeks ago, they havnt eaten but 2 have paired up and have spawned on my driftwood. I've tried bloodworms, beef heart flakes and even live blackworms to no avail... nitrates are at 10-20ppm ammonia is 0 nitrites are 0.. ph is about 6.5-7(fluctuates because of co2).. My tank is a 72 gallon, heavily planted tank with tetras, cherry barbs and apistos... I change water weekly, about 50% each time... any help would be really appreciated. I'm concerned that if they don't eat, they'll wither away...

[DiscusDrew]

They very well could wither away, I have a lot of concerns being that you're new to keeping discus.
1) A 50% water change once per week is insufficient, your first instinct with any discus having trouble should be to increase water changes, and to get that tank as clean as possible. 50% a day until you get those nitrates down preferably under 5 ppm. This is going to be hard on your plants potentially which is why most of us will not recommend doing planted or even substrate tanks when you're new to discus. That said, I've had new sub adult discus go some time without eating, especially if they are spawning but I still suspect things maybe aren't quite right...
Doing at LEAST three 50% water changes per week should be sufficient for your sub adults after they are settled in and behaving normal. Is there any other strange behavior? I.E. hiding, skittish, turning etc? If so please fill out the disease questionnaire in the disease section, if not we can continue this discussion here.
2) While a change in Ph from 6.5 to 7.0 is by no means catastrophic... With a proper CO2 system it should remain very consistent. Having a Ph controller attached to the system would be to your benefit, and making sure your incoming water on water changes is close to whatever Ph you set it at would be ideal. Remember two things, it is a common misconception that domestically bred discus require acidic water, so there is no need to be lowering the Ph, keeping it close to your tap water parameters would be to your advantage. Also remember that consistency is the name of the game with discus, keeping water parameters as consistent as possible will result in discus that are less stressed.

I'd also be curious to know what you have your temperature set up at?

[jeromeit]

Ah I see.. No hiding or any of that stuff.. The pair is attending to the eggs very closely.. Attacking the 3rd discus if he comes close. My temp is at 82.. Should I get rid of the 3rd discus? I really appreciate your input.

[DiscusDrew]

Well, its kind of a funny thing my friend... If I were TRYING to intentionally breed... I would potentially use a third fish to induce spawning action amongst other potential tricks... However, I think its best you focus on the care of your discus first and try not to let them actually keep any eggs. I say this because the discus are only 5" fish and if you are new to discus breeding is a whole nother ball game. Im not saying you have to do this but I dont usually breed my pairs until they put on more size than that. They are capable of breeding, but now you are essentially putting all their energy into breeding behavior when really they should still be growing. Do you know how old the fish are by chance? Because that may change things a bit. All that said, the third fish will probably never do well, as the pair if confirmed will continually keep him away from the spawn site and terrorize him more or less. Groups of 6 or more are the general principle for a discus tank, breeding pairs are different and yes you could choose to just keep a breeding pair but again, that brings up many more potential struggles down the line. Especially for someone new to discus. I would consider adding a few more discus honestly, getting the numbers up may slow down the spawning behavior, it may not, when you do so re-arrange the tank and put them in in descending order of aggression. If doing this will overstock your tank then you will either need to up the water changes (which you should be doing already anyway) or look at removing some of the other community fish in the tank.

Looking at the medical aspect, Im not particularly concerned that they arent eating, though they should eat pretty quickly at the 5" size, Ive had adults go a long time without eating after being moved but thats much larger fish (yours may be older I just dont know). If poo is normal and all that the only thing I would look at doing right now is what I mentioned above potentially, if so get from the same stock if you get new fish, otherwise you will need to QT the new arrivals which slows you down by a month. If that is not an option then yes I would look into removing the third fish for now. Also increase the temp a bit, not extensively but up to 84-85 for now, that should speed up their metabolism a bit and hopefully induce some eating. The pair may be not eating because they are spawning, which is normal behavior, and if it was my tank I would probably pull the eggs until they are better established but this is debatable and up to you. The third fish is most likely not eating out of stress from the other 2, so its not really an ideal situation haha. You have a situation that is arguable in many directions my friend, I can give you the best advice I can from my personal experience breeding and from what has worked for others I have helped in similar situations. One thing I feel is certain, a fish needs to be removed, or several fish need to be added. Then you need to make a decision about the eggs. And regardless of any of this you need to seriously consider some of the advice I gave previously about keeping discus when your new to them and particularly the water change schedule (thats kind of a non-negotiable if you want success with discus).

Let me know what you decide to do and Ill be happy to help regardless of your decisions. Id also like to know the age of the fish if you know. Also, as a breeder of pigeon based discus... I would like to see pictures haha, so if you can post some, you can spam this thread to get your post count up so you can post pictures. I would imagine if the fish you have are truly a pigeon/tefe cross then there would be some pretty hardcore peppering. Id love to take a look.

[lipadj46]

Those are my fish i gave jerome and you have seen the pix and said they look nice. The fish are joe gargas fish and just over a year. The larger nicer of the 3 is 6".

Hey jerome did the super beefheart flake get to you yet? Is the larger discus part of the pair? Did you see it was a male or female? Just curious as that was my favorite of that batch.

As far as eating, after things calm down, these fish are used to casually grazing off the bottom of a tank with no competition so they have to adjust. Usually bloodworms get them going good. As far as getting rid of the third that may be necessary. If its the larger one i'll take it back my wife is in nyc this week lol!

[DiscusDrew]

Ahhhh I remember these guys! So we know were dealing with good fish to start with, that's an excellent first step! Good to know we can actually get the history of the fish, they may just take some time then but still because of the pairing you may have to change things in the tank. Best of luck.

[lipadj46]

I talked to jerome and he is going to find a home for the smaller third wheel. I think then the pair will be happy in his planted tank especially if they spawned for him right off the bat (they never did for me lol!). I'm sure they will eat after they get done with this spawn. They are very well conditioned so they should be fine in the mean time.

[DiscusDrew]

I still stick to my guns about increasing your water change regime and also getting a Ph controller for your co2 system. But I know what fish we are talking about now and they are large enough to breed if desired. You should be fine with these guys with a little patience.

[lipadj46]

yeah twice a week water changes would probably be better. These particular fish are pretty tough though.

[discuspaul]

That's excellent advice from DiscusDrew, Jerome. Please follow it and you should be just fine.

[jeromeit]

Thanks for all the input guys. My co2 I being controlled by my apex aquacontroller so it keeps an eye on my ph and temp parameters. I gave away the little guy to a friend last night so we'll see how it goes from here. I just completed a water change and will definitely try to do at least 2x waterchanges a week. I didn't get to see if the big one was a female or male. I've got quite a bit of peppering on the big guy though the smaller one isn't showing as much peppering I think the exposed aquasoil is partially to blame, I'm tryin to get a staurogyne rep. carpet to get rid of the dark substrate. But can't because the fish are in the area where I need to plant. It'll have to wait. The fry have hatched, no eating of the fry or eggs.. The couple seems to know what theyre doing.

Thanks again for the input and advice Don, Drew and Paul I will definitely keep all of you updated.

[lipadj46]

yeah in a bare bottom tank the large one did not show much peppering at all but once in the planted tank and spawning the peppering will come out. That's great they are doing that good with the spawn for the first time around. If you want to give raising the fry a shot you will need to get a brine shrimp hatchery ready.

[DiscusDrew]

Yeah like now haha

[jeromeit]

Lol, i wish i could give it a shot.. came home and the fry were gone, they didnt eat the fry right off the bat though but maybe they ended up having a change of heart lol. I hope they give it another go.