White butterfly fry not attaching

[james1234]

Hi guys i am normally very good at getting my other pb strain fry to attach to the parents but cannot for the life of me get my butterfly fry to attach.
I've tried all the known methods with no avail, led light over the tank, removed everything bar heater and airstone, dropped water level, still nothing.
Its hard watching the poor little fellows swimming aimlessly around the tank till they finally die.
I currently have a few pairs but all have older fry so fostering is not an option, nor artifically raising as work 10+ hrs per day.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated
Cheers james

[nc0gnet0]

keep the area over the cone as dark as possible. You can accomplish this by blocking 2/3 - 3/4 of the fixture with a hunk of cardboard. Do not turn the light of completely.

Rick

[LizStreithorst]

We need you here Drew.

[james1234]

keep the area over the cone as dark as possible. You can accomplish this by blocking 2/3 - 3/4 of the fixture with a hunk of cardboard. Do not turn the light of completely.

Rick

Cheers Rick i have just come back in from the fh to read this and this what i have just tried, cheers

[DiscusDrew]

Lol Liz, just like all pigeons you either do a white out (I wouldn't with white butterflies) or a dark out basically. Ricks advice is great, in troubles and with bright pigeons I cover all but a sliver of light from the fixture, keep the fixture on 24/7, should take about a day or so. I would also cover the whole tank, I use a black blanket and just leave it alone, check back in about 18-24 hours and you should find most attached. You will probably not get as high of an attachment as most other strains, its just part of pigeon breeding but this has worked well for me on very light pigeons. On most of my other pigeons I do exactly the opposite because I have white tanks, but those are fish that have more orange or other colors. HTH

[DiscusDrew]

Ohhh and if Im reduced to using the above mentioned method it means I already had problems with a different route, and as such I lower the water level to just barely cover the cone (depending on the height of the cone, I use relatively short ones) and my breeders are in 29 gal tanks which is relatively large so lowering the water will help too many from straying. Also do NOT "white out" the sponge filter with cheese clothe or anything if you do this route, either remove the sponge filter or just leave it but it should be dark. The whole premise is that everything is dark in the tank and the only thing moving and visible to the little munchkins is mom and dad. You get the idea I hope, if you have any questions shoot. But overall Ive had great success using one or the other of these very basic principles, make it all white so mom and dad are the only thing dark, or make it all dark (except a little light) so that mom and dad are the only thing light.

[james1234]

Ohhh and if Im reduced to using the above mentioned method it means I already had problems with a different route, and as such I lower the water level to just barely cover the cone (depending on the height of the cone, I use relatively short ones) and my breeders are in 29 gal tanks which is relatively large so lowering the water will help too many from straying. Also do NOT "white out" the sponge filter with cheese clothe or anything if you do this route, either remove the sponge filter or just leave it but it should be dark. The whole premise is that everything is dark in the tank and the only thing moving and visible to the little munchkins is mom and dad. You get the idea I hope, if you have any questions shoot. But overall Ive had great success using one or the other of these very basic principles, make it all white so mom and dad are the only thing dark, or make it all dark (except a little light) so that mom and dad are the only thing light.

Thanks for the reply Drew, i'm a big fan of pb strains myself and currently have the white butterflys and a pair of checkerboard pbs which are very nice imo.
I do the whole dark tank thing with my checkas with great success so thought this would work but no it didn't.
I left them to it last night and all day today and came home to find the majority of them huddling in the corner, so decided on putting a light over the top and rounding up the fry myself and putting them on the parents via a piece of RO tubing, this seems to have had the right effect as now 3hrs later all but 3 are on the parents.
We'll see what the following few hours bring752017520275203

[Brent1972]

You can't beat the sight of fry on there backs mate , Spot on :)

[DiscusDrew]

Wait what? You did what I said and it did not work?...... How long were they failing to attach? Ive NEVER had that not work with white butterflies or in any instance where the dark out method was not prudent... I feel like something was not done correctly if that did not work.

[james1234]

Wait what? You did what I said and it did not work?...... How long were they failing to attach? Ive NEVER had that not work with white butterflies or in any instance where the dark out method was not prudent... I feel like something was not done correctly if that did not work.

Hi Drew i've been using the blackout method on my other pbs for a while now with great success, but with my butterflys nothing.
Haha it was done correctly as said above i use the method alot for my others.
Since 'guiding' them to the parents sides they haven't let go (well most).
Its a strange one for me but i'm glad they are now doing well.

[DiscusDrew]

It may have been timing my friend, if fry are left for multiple days where they should be attaching and they dont, attachment rates drop rapidly and it gets harder and harder. I actually use a white out method for a majority of pigeons, not a black out, but the black out method for white butterfly's, combined with lowering water level has never not worked for me. It sounded like originally you had the light on and not covered partially? and nothing was mentioned about covering the entirety of the tank. Ive only one time done the pita method of actually manually putting them on mom and dad, never again lol, thats why I use these methods immediately, and dont wait for there to be problems. Timing seems to play a part. The other possibility is that your parents werent allowing attachment, Ive seen parents continue to spit them onto the cone or somewhere else and not allow them the ability to attach, this can obviously cause problems as well.

[james1234]

It may have been timing my friend, if fry are left for multiple days where they should be attaching and they dont, attachment rates drop rapidly and it gets harder and harder. I actually use a white out method for a majority of pigeons, not a black out, but the black out method for white butterfly's, combined with lowering water level has never not worked for me. It sounded like originally you had the light on and not covered partially? and nothing was mentioned about covering the entirety of the tank. Ive only one time done the pita method of actually manually putting them on mom and dad, never again lol, thats why I use these methods immediately, and dont wait for there to be problems. Timing seems to play a part. The other possibility is that your parents werent allowing attachment, Ive seen parents continue to spit them onto the cone or somewhere else and not allow them the ability to attach, this can obviously cause problems as well.

Its hard for me to catch my fry when they first free swim as i'm out at work for 10-12hrs daily so either catch them before or after.
These fry went free swimming yesterday at somepoint and had them all attached by yesterday evening.
Anyhow glad to hear other peoples experiences with breeding pbs

[DiscusDrew]

In the future you should be able to get a feel for the strain and pair, and estimate hatch time based on the time the eggs are layed and fertilized, and when you get wigglers. Thats the best advice I can give on when to convert the tank for this pair so that you maximize attachment. Hopefully it goes better next time, is it a relatively young/ new pair?