Getting my PH down (uk)

[TerryP]

Hi guys I am fairly new to discus, I had nine of mixed size in 70gallon 388ltr, they started breeding in treated tap that had been lowered over time with sphagnum peat moss.
I've seen built a fish house but had no RO so I filled with tap and so on.....
I now have a RO unit with di resin ph comes out just over 6 I've changed two lots of 75ltr so 150ltr in a 60tr set up (half my set up) but I've only got it down too 7.2 ! I need it lower, will it come with more changes or do I just need to drain the whole lot ?!?!

[Larry Bugg]

Why do you think you need it lower?

[Poco]

Why do you think you need it lower?


Because I don't like my fish!

Seriously playing with pH will have disastrous consiquences. Discus like stable pH, big swings will end up killing them.

[dpete9]

Why do you think you need it lower?
I was thinking the same.. Also out of curiosity what does a 60tr setup mean?

[Darsenion]

I think he mean 60 ltr? And for reference I tried the whole playing with PH and it was not good. No loses but hard to keep it stable. I slowly raised the pH to water strait out of the tap with Prime and they are a whole lot healthier, not to mention less work ;)

[TerryP]

It's a 600-800ltr breeding set up, that's why I am after a lower pH for breeding purpose.

[Poco]

You can still breed with your tap water but your hatch rate will be a bit lower.

[Moon]

No need to lower ph for breeding. Lower the hardness.

[TerryP]

How do you lower each one indepently ??

[Larry Bugg]

Well we don't know that his water is hard. 7.2 PH is perfectly fine for breeding. I wouldn't do a thing. Wait and see if there are any issues and then make a decision. Never mess with your water unless you really have to.

[Trier20]

My ph is off the high ph test kit scale and mine breed fine.

[Tommo]

Here is a useful UK link for you:

http://www.martynsbargains.com/hydroponics/hydroponic-ph-down-water-stabiliser-81-phosphoric-acid/prod_310.html

Also it is the KH (carbonate / non-carbonate hardness / alkaline hardness) that is the important hardness to check when breeding acicdophilic fish.

[TerryP]

I've had a proper aquatic version of this and the I dosed and found it got the level to 6.5 for a short time and then rose again so it wasn't stable

[Tommo]

Check your KH (also know as alkaline hardness) - if KH is high this will act as a buffer and increase your pH again.

[TerryP]

I won't have this prob if I use RO though will I

[DiscusDrew]

If you use RO it should only be because your water is hard and you are having low hatch rates. Before you do anything I would see if you are getting hatches at all, even with TDS over 350 I still get a low hatch rate in my breeding set up. I use RO in my breeder tanks, reconstituted with RO right by Kent, this is only until the fry go free swimming and then I switch them right back to tap. Also you will have limited to no success breeding in a set up that large with that many fish. There's a million factors that will cause the potential pairs to eat eggs, eat fry, etc. I would recommend smaller tanks to house individual pairs, then use the large tank to move the pairs into when they are not breeding or you pull them from the fry. Before making any true recommendations on what to do with your water I would like your Gh, Kh, and TDS readings. I don't even monitor my Ph.... It will go lower if you use RO but it really doesn't matter as long as you have enough kh to maintain the water chemistry, that's why I use RO right. There are other similar products or you can mix with tap.

[Tommo]

Please remember that when you are measuring TDS you are measuring "what it says on the tin" Total Dissolved Solids and not just mineral content or hardness. TDS meters are fine for checking if your RO unit is working efficiently or if you know the chemical composition of you source water. However, for most people TDS readings are only useful as a guide and should be used in conjunction with GH and KH test kits.

RO units are also used by aquarists who keep marine fish (and delicate hard water fish) to ensure that the source water they are using is free from contaminants. The water is then reconstituted before use in the aquarium.

There are also many interesting studies on the effect of KH on sperm motility and egg development etc

[TerryP]

Ok, think I'll go a KH test that the ALK yeah, it's not one huge tank there's roughly two 200ltr cubes 2x2 and a 1 4x2 that holds roughly 400ltr then it's linked to the same sump.

In the UK mostly you hear that the fish must be in RO (6.5) or HMA for breeding, I've had eggs many times in past (every 7-10 days) but in a community tank and the eggs.

Thank you for taking the time to help guys.

[TerryP]

Oh by the way my water is about 8.2 out of the tap

[Tommo]

Oh by the way my water is about 8.2 out of the tap

You'll find that this pH reading will change if you store and aerate the water for 24 hours. RO water is around pH 7 (depending on your unit and membrane). Note, as other members have stated, pH stability is more important - as long as extremes are avoided for general husbandry purposes...

[lofty]

if your in london i'm guessing your water is pretty hard, most of the discus breeders i know there have to use r.o. to some degree for breeding purposes, i'm lucky i live in south wales and my water is very soft, perhaps you could try posting on a u.k. site they would be better equipped to help,
i know all the guys n gals here are extremely experienced and will help on all issues, but our u.k.water can be a lot different in content than our american friends.

[TerryP]

Right KH test, salifert test kit expires 2015

RO 0.9 left in syringe before colour change ----14.5

Living room display (tap) 0.7 left in syringe before colour change 14.8

What should I be aiming for and how.

[TerryP]

if your in london i'm guessing your water is pretty hard, most of the discus breeders i know there have to use r.o. to some degree for breeding purposes, i'm lucky i live in south wales and my water is very soft, perhaps you could try posting on a u.k. site they would be better equipped to help,
i know all the guys n gals here are extremely experienced and will help on all issues, but our u.k.water can be a lot different in content than our american friends.

Yeah water is totally different, I have joined a uk club also now for that reason but the help here has been great aswell

[TerryP]

Right KH test, salifert test kit expires 2015

RO 0.9 left in syringe before colour change ----14.5

Living room display (tap) 0.7 left in syringe before colour change 14.8

What should I be aiming for and how.

I now believe that to be the upper end of acceptable, however I do have in place a few bags of peat to lower the levels

[Chicago Discus]

I now believe that to be the upper end of acceptable, however I do have in place a few bags of peat to lower the levels

I have used peat in the past it worked pretty good the only problems I ran into was the eggs seemed to fuzz and mold up much faster. When I was using the peat I found that running it through an old canister filter with floss to catch the fine particles worked the best. I used the fresh peat not one you buy in the pet stores the one you buy at a garden center. I use RO mixed with aged tap water for breeding now I get a higher hatch rate and not as messy like the peat mix :)........Josie

[TerryP]

I have used peat in the past it worked pretty good the only problems I ran into was the eggs seemed to fuzz and mold up much faster. When I was using the peat I found that running it through an old canister filter with floss to catch the fine particles worked the best. I used the fresh peat not one you buy in the pet stores the one you buy at a garden center. I use RO mixed with aged tap water for breeding now I get a higher hatch rate and not as messy like the peat mix :)........Josie

Good tip, thank you for sharing.