Seachem Safe can go....

[Discus-n00b]

Well you know. ;) Tried Seachem Safe for the first time today, was excited as its a cheaper option that will last me for a long time and I won't have to keep buying Prime. Well that all went downhill very fast. Did a WC on my breeder tanks, used the last of my Prime and it went off without a hitch, no problems what so ever. Move over to my 50gal tank, had to use seachem safe. Drained the water and filled the tank up, followed dosing instructions of 1/4 tsp per 50gals of water for safe and put it in. Within a minute my fish were laying on their sides, breathing hard, some swimming upside down, turning dark.....looked very bad. Quickly scooped them out and put them in a bucket of water from my 100gal they were just like new within another minute of being in the bucket. I've never seen anything like it before.

What went wrong? I literally did NOTHING different then I usually do except add Safe. And I did 2 breeder tanks with zero issues before using Safe. And I know I didn't OD it because I actually didn't even use a full level TSP. Bad batch? I know people use it all the time with no problems, so what happened in my case? The bottle says it can be added directly to the tank. I don't know but I quickly went to Petsmart and bought an overpriced bottle of prime, 2L bottle on its way from Ken's. No more cloudy water and about to put the fish back in the tank. Won't be using Safe again.

[Donno]

I've always used Prime but decided to use Safe to save a couple of bucks. What I find myself doing is using using twice as much Safe as I do Prime.

Safe works fine, it smells awful, but seems to work. I think I'm going to just play it safe and go back to Prime.

[nc0gnet0]

Move over to my 50gal tank, had to use seachem safe. Drained the water and filled the tank up, followed dosing instructions of 1/4 tsp per 50gals of water for safe and put it in.


And I know I didn't OD it because I actually didn't even use a full level TSP.

I am confused how much did you use?

Rick

[Discus-n00b]

Just got off the phone with Kenny, gave me a good idea to premake a solution of Safe (basically turn it into prime) and something I didn't know you could do. I won't throw out the bottle just yet, but it really gave me a scare today.....confusion really, couldn't figure it out. Got a small bottle of prime today just in case.

Fish are well btw, they are back in the tank a little shaken but nothing serious.

[Discus-n00b]

I am confused how much did you use?

Rick

I used a 1/4 tsp measuring spoon, just didn't level it off. It was slightly under level.

[Teshi]

I've just finished my prime and was going to use Safe tomorrow, I'm very glad I read this first! I'll mix some first before trying this.

On a side note, don't you just love how helpful Kenny can be?


Just got off the phone with Kenny, gave me a good idea to premake a solution of Safe (basically turn it into prime) and something I didn't know you could do. I won't throw out the bottle just yet, but it really gave me a scare today.....confusion really, couldn't figure it out. Got a small bottle of prime today just in case.

Fish are well btw, they are back in the tank a little shaken but nothing serious.

[Skip]

did you use 1/4 teaspoon or 1/4 tablespoon?

[Skip]

thats just very weird

[Discus-n00b]

Teaspoon. Only thing I can think of and what Kenny suggested is that it just doesn't mix into the water as fast as Prime does. But Idk all I can do is guess at the moment. It has to be something to do with the Safe as it was the only thing I changed, most likely a user error but who knows. Important thing to note is the fish are fine so I can continue growing them out for NADA 2014.

[Discus-n00b]

I know that right on the money is best for dosing anything, but is it less harmful to dose less then dose more? The reason I ask is the scariest part of the whole thing was how fast these fish took a turn for the worse in literally less then a minute. I didn't dose so far under to not be effective, when I say slightly I mean very very slightly under 1/4 tsp. But obviously I didn't hit 1/4 tsp right on the nose. I've never seen a reaction that fast from any of my fish before using the same tap water day in and day out, even if I waited to put Prime in.

[ExReefer]

The only time I have had problems with SAFE was if I under dosed.

[Discus-n00b]

Well, that may be the problem then. I just was scared of the whole Do Not Overdose listed on the bottle...which is absent from Prime bottles.

[DLock3d]

Matt, if you got a Dr. Foster gift certificate in your swag bag at NADA you can do the same thing i did. I got a 2 liter bottle of prime for 30 - 35 bucks. Which was pretty damn good for me.

[YSS]

I will bet the fish don't turn that bad that fast in a tap water without any treatment. If after dosing with SAFE your fish went looking really bad that fast, then I suspect something is wrong with your SAFE. I have been using SAFE for a long time and had no issues. Also, I used to put prime in the tank after I was done with filling the tank and my fish didn't really look stressed while the tank was getting filled and I have a big tank. Good luck figuring out what the real issue is.

[lipadj46]

I have dosed 1/4 tsp in 10 gallons with no noticeable affects when a tank was cycling. In my 75g I normally dose 1/4 tsp as at higher temps you don't need as much. I have dosed 1 tsp in my 75 gallon during a re-recycle period. Its hard to say. I had an issue with using Prime with prazipro together, ended up killing a few fish. Seachem blamed the prazipro and Hikari blamed the prime lol!

Also as mentioned above when I dose safe I dump in the full dose into a very small amount of water and that does not affect the fish at all. It has got to be something else going on.

[Discus-n00b]

We are redoing the kitchen here at the house, and at first I thought it might have something to do with plumbing and what not, but since the other fish were not affected I had to rule out anything to do with the water itself. Like I said the only thing I changed was the conditioner from Prime to Safe. I'm going to try it again next water change, this time mixing it in water first and see what happens. So its ok to overdose Safe a little bit?

[Len]

I do large (almost 100 %) water changes and add safe to the tank before I even start filling up and have never had the fish react any differently. Like already said, I'd suspect something was up with that batch or even on a small chance something else got into the tank without you realizing?

[Discus-n00b]

Do you premix in water or just put in the powder Len?

[Len]

I just dump the powder straight into the tank before I start to refill. 1/2 teaspoon to cover 77 gal tank plus the volume of water in the 33 gal fluid bed filter, so by directions a little bit more than called for, but close enough to skip getting to picky with the measurements.

[Altum Nut]

I would agree with Yun, possibly a bad batch.
I've been using safe for some time now without any issues. I'm wondering if you can get a small amount to test in a lab.
I mainly start adding it after I clamp and turn on my fill hose. I always add a bit more than recommended.

...Ralph

[Lenin]

I have to agree, I've used safe for more than a year with no issues, I even use a little bit more than the recommended dose, I use tap water and just dump the safe when I'm filling up the tank

[Skip]

I do over 50% wc in 4 different.tanks.. Only one tank has.issues like u described...other tanks are fine

Its weird

[Etek]

I have just started using Safe last 2 water changes..I guesstimate 1/4 teaspoon from a plastic spoon for a 60gal. Haven't had any problems. I dump my unaged water straight from faucet to tank and just add the 1/4 teaspoonful. Not sure what couldve went wrong.

[nwehrman]

I have also used safe for over a year. Some tanks get safe then straight tap. Other tanks it gets safe in the aging barrel 24 hours before use. Never had a bad reaction from either. I always overdose...to some degree. 29's routinely dosed for 50 gallons.


Nicole

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[Oscarsx]

That sucks man, get prime the pond kind, saves you money and works exactly the same.

- Oz

[fattubwhale]

Sorry to hear of the problems! I been using SAFE for the last couple of years now and havent had any problems. I always over dose a little when using the product. In my 75g grow outs I do a 80-90% WC straight from Tap and I use appx. 3/4 of a tsp. I've dosed Prior, during and after filling and never experienced any adverse affect.

[DerekFF]

I always overdose a little with SAFE also and have never had issues. I put it straight in the tank, straight in the sump, into the water flow of the filter. I usually wait till im about 30-50% refilled before i add it though.

Sent from my DROIDX

[Orange Crush]

I have been using Safe for about 8 months now with no issues.
Maybe you could test your water to see how much chlorine/chloramine you have and add the amount of Safe for that rather than just based on the volume of your tank and see if that makes a difference.
Make sure you have plenty of airation going when you add it to the tank
Safe can temporarily reduce the ammount of O2 available for the fish (especially if you use a regular sized dose in water that is 86F+). hth

[utiliy]

i thought a 1/4 tsp treated 40g of water? thats how i been doing it for over a year now....no problems

[twocat]

I have used Safe for a number of years, Sometimes when I do multiple tanks I have noticed the little white 1/4 tsp spoon got wet and all of the 1/4 tsp did not go in. It was caked to the inside of the spoon. Could this of happened?

[timmy82]

I have never had any drama's with safe. I mix it by the bucket before i put it in. Now I have triple filters with last one being a .002 micron block carbon so don't need the safe

[Eddie]

I will bet the fish don't turn that bad that fast in a tap water without any treatment. If after dosing with SAFE your fish went looking really bad that fast, then I suspect something is wrong with your SAFE. I have been using SAFE for a long time and had no issues. Also, I used to put prime in the tank after I was done with filling the tank and my fish didn't really look stressed while the tank was getting filled and I have a big tank. Good luck figuring out what the real issue is.

I agree, I've used it for ages and recommended it to hundreds on here and no one ever had results like that. I don't premix mine ever. I drain the tank, add the safe and fill the tank. Never a single hiccup in any of my fish. In fact, I feed them when I'm filling so they look forward to it!

[strawberryblonde]

You feed them too Eddie? I thought I was the only one who went and "messed up" the pristine tank while filling it up.

I do the same as Eddie, drain tank, add Safe, fill with water and feed while filling. Never had any problems at all, so I also suspect that there's either something wrong with your Safe, or some sort of toxin entered the tank during cleaning and filling.

[Eddie]

You feed them too Eddie? I thought I was the only one who went and "messed up" the pristine tank while filling it up.

I do the same as Eddie, drain tank, add Safe, fill with water and feed while filling. Never had any problems at all, so I also suspect that there's either something wrong with your Safe, or some sort of toxin entered the tank during cleaning and filling.

yup, gets them pumped for water changes. LOL

[Eddie Wells]

I had same experience as Matt with Safe and lost all six of my Piwowarski Red Turks. Within 5 minutes they were sucking for air, put them in a bucket with water from another aquarium, started shedding slime, dead within the hour.
If anyone is gutzy enough I have 2.2 lbs. someone can have.

Eddie

[Discus-n00b]

I'm still a bit scared to try mine again. Luckily I was standing right there and didn't let the whole tank fill before I checked on them, I instantly moved mine. Scooped some water out of my 100gal with a bucket and put them straight in. Sorry to hear about your experience Eddie. I bought my Seachem Safe on 7/16/2012 from Ken's Fish. By no means am I saying Ken's fish is to blame, just simply providing the date and purchase location in case it was a bad batch and someone bought at the same time.

[yim11]

Hi Matt,

I bought 4 kilos from Kens Fish on 8/27. The bucket had a different label than what I was getting from David Rose at IGO PRO but I've no issues with it changing a few hundred gallons a day.

HTHs,
-jim

[Eddie Wells]

Matt bought mine in 2011 from David so probably not same batch, I'm not going to try it again myself, haven't figured out what went wrong yet but lost some nice Turks. They are the only fish I have lost in three years of Discus keeping.

Eddie

[Discus-n00b]

Wondering if something in the water reacted with it? I don't know. It honestly was like as soon as Safe went into my tank, an Atom bomb hit and wiped out the whole biofilter and crashed the pH thats how the fish reacted. I'm still at a loss as to what caused it.

[Eddie Wells]

That is exactly what I was thinking but not going to chance it again.


Eddie Wells

[Teshi]

I just started using the Safe about 5 days after OP put this thread up. I was very cautious about doing so. But so far so good. No issues. I did not get mine from David.

[shawnhu]

I had same experience as Matt with Safe and lost all six of my Piwowarski Red Turks. Within 5 minutes they were sucking for air, put them in a bucket with water from another aquarium, started shedding slime, dead within the hour.
If anyone is gutzy enough I have 2.2 lbs. someone can have.

Eddie

I'll take you up on that offer. Been using Safe for a while now.

[TURQ64]

I use Safe with all my fry and juvies..(The only fish in tap here)..that said, my tap is crappy, and I still have never had an issue..We have tons of chloramines here, and even straight into the tank, there's generally no reaction to the water immediately if no conditioner is used..I'd be suspect of a possible bad batch. Also, the diff between a 1/4 tsp and 1/4 tbsp isn't harmful with safe; it falls within the 4X overdose with no effect parameters set by Seachem..I age my tap 24 hrs., not out of the tap..might be the difference being able to gass off..good luck with whatever the issue.

[YSS]

One thing that concerned me about using SAFE was that when I add the powder directly in the tank, the fish tend to try to eat it thinking food. I was afraid that eating SAFE powder may harm the fish, but I haven't had any deaths from fish trying to eat SAFE.

Anyhow, it sucks not knowing what caused the issue at hand. And you wouldn't know if it was a bad batch of SAFE or something else until you try a couple of more times, but I fully understand being gun shy about trying again. Kinda reminds me of posts in the past where a few people lost a whole bunch of nice fish after treating the tank with Jugle Parasite.

[Eddie]

I would definitely contact Seachem and maybe send them the product for testing. That sucks about the losses.

[Ardan]

I agree with Eddie, contact Seachem and send them some to test. You could also mix some up and test ph. Maybe there was a mix up in processing that lot number.

Ardan

[Discusdude7]

I know this is an old thread but did you ever end up figuring out what happened?

[Discus-n00b]

No idea, I switched back to prime. Still might have the safe around somewhere. Switched back to Prime and had no further trouble. Weird.

[Discusdude7]

No idea, I switched back to prime. Still might have the safe around somewhere. Switched back to Prime and had no further trouble. Weird.

Makes me nervous about using safe. So far no problems. Hope the same doesn't happen to me.

[DiscusLoverJeff]

I use Safe with no problems.

[Udeservit]

OMG, I hate reading things like this. I just ordered Safe as recommended on the site by some helpful forum members. I sure hope I don't run into any problems, its true cheaper isn't always better but i sure hope it is in this case!!!
If that bottle could have been tested it would have been good to know if it was a bad batch but really a water conditioner shouldn't wipe out your bio as suggested as a possibility on this thread.

[Discus-n00b]

Kelly, tons of people have had no problems with it. This was quite a while ago, you should be safe using your safe.

[OC Discus]

Unless I read wrong, looks like you added the water first, then added safe. If that is the case, the fish were exposed to the chlorine. The powder probably doesn't dissolve and disperse as fast as liquid.

Many members say they double dose with prime. Either should be added to the water before the water goes into the tank. Ideally, mix the safe with your new water before adding it to the tank. If that is not possible, dissolve it in a quart of water and add it to the tank before adding the new water.

Glad they were ok. I've seen this happen before by adding the chlorinated water to the tank before adding the dechlorinator. Its like drinking poison then taking an antidote for it rather than neutralizing the poison before taking it.

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Its like drinking poison then taking an antidote for it rather than neutralizing the poison before taking it.

Great quote and advice!

[Kal-El]

I have use safe for a while now and never once any issue. I Always dose 1/4 teaspoon for 75g and 1/8 teaspoon for 29 gallon.

[MSD]

I dose the same way with safe and never a hiccup.

[Tazalanche]

We use Safe with no problems too.

[Ryan]

I switched to Safe and use it for all my tanks. I add it right to the tank before I start filling with new water. Usually I drop it in a minute or so before so that it has time to dissolve. I always double dose, whether I'm using Safe or Prime, just in case the water department decided to flush lines without telling me.

[Tomo01]

Good things to think about. Thanks for the heads up.

[Mugwump]

I've used Safe for quite a while too....if you mix it first, you're fine....I always add it to my refill water, then fill the tank...works like a dream. Other posters are indeed correct, if you're can't mix it first, mix a pint, or whatever, and add to the tank before you refill......period. good stuff. I can get a Kilo off Amazon, or ebay, for about $30...doses over 200,000 gallons...that's a heck of a lot of Prime, in comparison......

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Seachem%20Safe%201%20Kilo

[pastry]

I was afraid to switch from Prime to Safe but once I did then I never looked back. They both smell like egg ****... one a little more than the other... but Safe is safe. That warning of not "over dosing" does make you scratch your head but honestly I over dose a little since I'd rather not under dose. I haven't aged my water this winter so my water comes straight from faucet to the tank.