Rose Red with Hole in the Head and Lateral Line Erosion Microscope Video of Feces

[tregarza]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started
Evident signs of Hole in the head fish arrive like that.




2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)

Hole in the Head and lateral line erosion. Poop is normal and fish is eating.





3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

Started Tetra bits with soak with epsom salt at 3% mixed with metro day 1



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

55 Gallons 6 month old and 4 fish all discus

5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

50% every second day gravel I do not age water use prime.


6 Parameters and water source;

- temp ___87__

- ph __7.5___

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading _0___

- well water __no__

- municipal water _yes___

7. Any new fish/plants added recently

New tank set up new fish about 1 month ago



I do have a microscope and a took a fresh feces sample at 100 magnification and I took the video with a sony bloggie and I zoom 4x so the video should be 400x. Are these critters Hexamita?

Video link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWqMkS4X7IY

[DiscusDrew]

Where from and why was this fish ordered? Ill watch the microscope video and get back to you but I just want to start by saying quality stock from the get go is at the heart of this hobby. Otherwise you tend to be fighting a losing battle (that can be one but often with ill effects).

[DiscusDrew]

Man that image quality is not very good, bits and pieces of good image but few and far between. Was the sample taken directly from the vent?

[tregarza]

I ordered online from Discusmadness.com since I wasn't looking for any champion fish I order the 5 assorted package. So I did not see any of them.

[tregarza]

Yes with a digital camera sorry is the best I could with what I have at the moment.

[DiscusDrew]

OK, well maybe its just me but I cant see the flagella..... Which is a key part of identifying a flaggelate, which hexamita is. It looks promising, however, I can't make a 100% diagnosis without a clear image of the potential flaggelate, meaning with it showing the flagella. In some parts there appears to be but again, I cant really see, maybe my eyes are crap...

I would never order from discusmadness, even if you are not looking for "show" quality it truly isnt about that. Its about HEALTHY discus, and if you cant tell.... that is not what you recieved. That pictured discus is heavily stunted, which is pretty much always the case when fish come from him. Heres the thing, even ordering Hans or Kenny's discus, they are not all show quality... so then why do so many of us ONLY order from a select few sources? Because they are all QUALITY discus, not show, but healthy, with good form, good shape, and never stunted. Buying poor quality discus like I said leaves you in a losing battle from the beginning. Its worth spending the money it takes and waiting to make an order to get discus that will make you happy and live long healthy lives. Its for the good of this hobby as well. Every person that gets wowed by the price of discusmadness crappy fish, only encourages breeders and importers that dont give a crap about quality to continue doing what they are doing. If we all started gaining knowledge and refused to buy discus of poor quality, these people would be forced to come around and start selling discus of good health and quality. Anyway Ill end my rant with this...

Focus on the water quality, if I got in a batch of troublesome discus my first move would be a week of fresh clean aged water. Daily changes of at least 60-70%. I would then start a proactive QT most likely which I am not opposed to but if the fish is eating I would NOT be hitting it with meds so quickly, even if I could positively confirm intestinal flaggelates (i.e. hexamita). When hes had these water changes for a week I will give you what I would do as a proactive QT.... Im sorry but I will not even name meds until this happens because otherwise people dont listen and just start throwing crap in the water. But I will stay updated on this thread. Good luck.

[DiscusDrew]

OK, well maybe its just me but I cant see the flagella..... Which is a key part of identifying a flaggelate, which hexamita is. It looks promising, however, I can't make a 100% diagnosis without a clear image of the potential flaggelate, meaning with it showing the flagella. In some parts there appears to be but again, I cant really see, maybe my eyes are crap...

I would never order from discusmadness, even if you are not looking for "show" quality it truly isnt about that. Its about HEALTHY discus, and if you cant tell.... that is not what you recieved. That pictured discus is heavily stunted, which is pretty much always the case when fish come from him. Heres the thing, even ordering Hans or Kenny's discus, they are not all show quality... so then why do so many of us ONLY order from a select few sources? Because they are all QUALITY discus, not show, but healthy, with good form, good shape, and never stunted. Buying poor quality discus like I said leaves you in a losing battle from the beginning. Its worth spending the money it takes and waiting to make an order to get discus that will make you happy and live long healthy lives. Its for the good of this hobby as well. Every person that gets wowed by the price of discusmadness crappy fish, only encourages breeders and importers that dont give a crap about quality to continue doing what they are doing. If we all started gaining knowledge and refused to buy discus of poor quality, these people would be forced to come around and start selling discus of good health and quality. Anyway Ill end my rant with this...

Focus on the water quality, if I got in a batch of troublesome discus my first move would be a week of fresh clean aged water. Daily changes of at least 60-70%. I would then start a proactive QT most likely which I am not opposed to but if the fish is eating I would NOT be hitting it with meds so quickly, even if I could positively confirm intestinal flaggelates (i.e. hexamita). When hes had these water changes for a week I will give you what I would do as a proactive QT.... Im sorry but I will not even name meds until this happens because otherwise people dont listen and just start throwing crap in the water. But I will stay updated on this thread. Good luck.

[tregarza]

Ok, let me start buying a big drum so I can aged water. I will let you know when I finished my first week of water changes and I will update on condition.

[tregarza]

I have another fish that is pretty bad very thin almost no meat on him, I bought from my LFS and I'm trying to find what is the problem. I have a video of a slide but it even worse than this. He eats and all but his poo is ALIVE. a lot of things going on. do you want me to start another tread or I can post it here?

[DiscusDrew]

You can post it here if you like, works for me and people will see it. You have to be careful with microscopes... Just keep that in mind, there will always be living organisms. But generally speaking a fish that eats well but is skinny and needs to gain weight is not only a sign of worms but potentially poor nutrition. I'd like to know your feeding schedule and what foods you feed. Posting a set of pictures would be good and if you get a fresh sample from the vent and video it well then that will help tremendously.

[Eddie]

If the fish arrived like that and its not progressively getting worse, it will probably be fine with just keeping up with maintenance and good nutrition. I've seen plenty of pictures from members who have saved poorly kept fish with severe hole in the head and completely heal the fish with proper care and nutrition, no medication. The link between flagellates and HITH isn't concrete.

[tregarza]

Thanks, Im trying to change my way I keep fish. I been successful keeping and breeding angels in the past but the way to keep angels and discus are very different and I need to adapt to the fish necessities. I never believed that discus keeping required so much maintenance. But I will do my best since I've been wanted to have discus for quiet some time, now that I have them good or bad I will try to get the best of them.

I haven't been able to post the other fish I mentioned, but checking feces of the white diamond I found a very small round worm that appears to be capillaria, I treated h with levamisole once last week and I'm doing a second treatment right now. I will keep positing on his condition.