new to discus, bought some 40 breeders

[karlsfish]

is it good to put low tech plants in them if they are for grow outs? i really dont like the look of bare tanks but i also want good growth rate, will plants and gravel slow or stunt the discus? i plan on 10 gallon water changes 2 times per week growing out 5 discus per tank and then transfering them to my 180 when grown.

[Wes]

Try bare bottom first so that you see how much waste builds up each day. When growing out small discus I over feed, so that all the fish get enough to eat. This way one or two won't be able to hog all the food. Siphoning out the extra food is a must also. Water changes are an important part of keeping these fish healthy and growing. Some good info in this thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?28937-How-do-I-set-up-my-first-discus-tank

[Larry Bugg]

What size discus are you planning on getting? Discus growouts need plenty of food and very clean water. My experience is that if you want good growth then the easiest and best way to acheive that is with a bare bottom tank. I do daily water changes on growouts and depending on their age/size I do anywhere from 100% daily to 50% daily. I sent you a PM about your post in the SEDE section. I would suggest talking with some of us locally before jumping into discus. Come over, see our fish and talk about what works best. There are several of us locally that really enjoy helping new discus keepers get started. You are probably an hour drive from me but I would love for you to come by sometime and see the fish room and talk more. The Co-leader of SEDE is probably very close to you. Chad goes here by Sabres1 and he lives in Acworth.

[John_Nicholson]

I really doubt you have much success with the plan that you have laid out. You might get them to live but they will never thrive or reach their potential. The people that have had success for years and years don't keep them in bare bottom tanks or change large volumes of water because its good for us....we do it because it is good for the fish.

-john

[pastry]

think you need to provide more information but even with what you've provided then if you're trying to develope breeders then my .02 is that it sounds like you're stuck between wanting show tanks and growth tanks. if your intent is to raise breeders then you should definitely listen to John, Larry, and Wes. And this is coming from someone who's raising little guys in a planted tank but i'm not trying to raise breeders and i know they won't grow to what they would be if i were to have them in a bare bottom tank. with that, i still change a LOT of water each week... about 200-300 gallons over the course of a week in a 150 gallon for 8 small discus. i could still do more as well! there have been few people to raise little guys to pretty darn good sizes in planted tanks with "low maintenance" yet the "low maintenance" part is misleading because these people were pretty darn good with water chemistry and all sorts of filters. now, if you decide to stick with your plan then please keep me posted! i won't judge! but otherwise you're at a decision point if you want to better your chances of raising breeding stock OR having a showtank.

[ExReefer]

I really doubt you have much success with the plan that you have laid out. You might get them to live but they will never thrive or reach their potential. The people that have had success for years and years don't keep them in bare bottom tanks or change large volumes of water because its good for us....we do it because it is good for the fish.

-john

I would argue that bare bottom is also good for us. It makes it much easier to locate all the fish waste which makes maintenance eaiser for us. You could keep a sand bottom and clean the sand at every water change and the fish would do well, but it's more work. Keeping a bare bottom tank is selfish and it looks boring, but I'm ok with that. I do it as well because it saves me time on maintenance.

[John_Nicholson]

I see your point but here is mine...If it is good for us( easier ) then we are much more likely to keep it going and to do it right. This is now much better for the fish so in the long run the fish benefit from it much more than we do.

-john

[ExReefer]

I see your point but here is mine...If it is good for us( easier ) then we are much more likely to keep it going and to do it right. This is now much better for the fish so in the long run the fish benefit from it much more than we do.

-john

That is true. I just like to let new people know that you can grow out discus to max potential with substrate bottom. However, it is more work and for that reason, I don't recommend it.

[BobDaniel]

I really doubt you have much success with the plan that you have laid out. You might get them to live but they will never thrive or reach their potential. The people that have had success for years and years don't keep them in bare bottom tanks or change large volumes of water because its good for us....we do it because it is good for the fish.

-john

+1.

[karlsfish]

So sand is better then gravel, is that because the poop does not bed into the sand and just sits on top? seems like not much extra work. I am thinking sand bottom and one piece of mopani. 20 gallon or 50 percent water change every 2 days and remove the mopani once a week to clean under it. Im not raising breeders, im just wanting to buy around 24 discus to raise for one year and keep the nicest ones, around 12 to transfer to my 180 when they are full grown.

Start with 6 babies @ 2.5 inches per tank, 4 tanks.

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Karl,

If you're saying 6 discus per tank for a total of 24, I'm assuming that you have 4 40g breeders.

I know you say that you don't like the look of a barebottom tank, but think of it this way.

You can save money in the long run, and get 12 gorgeous discus into your 180 in much less than one year, with a LOT less work and worry, if you follow a different plan.

1) Buy twelve 3.5" - 4" discus from a reputable sponsor here on the forums. Place 6 each in 2 of the tanks.

2) Paint the bottoms of the tanks white or off white, add 2 sponge filters and one heater per tank.

3) Feed your discus twice in the morning before you leave for work. 1 feeding of discus flakes, 1 feeding of freeze dried blackworms or freeze dried bloodworms. (I put the worms into a Lee's feeder cone turned upside down so that they can graze on them for a long period of time without any mess)

4) Feed them Frozen beefheart twice when you get home from work, then do your 50% water change on each tank and finish off with another FDBW feeding.

They will quickly reach 6" or more and be ready to transfer to your decorated 180. Mine took about 2 1/2 months to reach 6", starting at 4".

Two months with 2 barebottom tanks really isn't all that horrible to look at and you'll thank yourself every night when you do the water changes and don't have to spend a ton of time sucking at the sand and vacuuming around the driftwood.

I actually do a 90% water change on a 55g and a 30g tank every night...both are barebottom. Draining them takes about 7 minutes for the big tank and 4 minute for the small tank. Refill is 10 minutes for the big tank and 6 minutes for the small tank. So total time I spend is less than one hour. For 2 40g tanks that would be about 35 minutes total time to drain and refill. If you use 2 python systems you can drain both at the same time to save even more time.

[pastry]

Yep, gotta agree with Toni when put that way. IF i were allowed a few extra tanks then i'd have a few bare bottom tanks to grow these suckers out for 2-3 months at least. That time goes by FAST. uggghhhh... love my planted tank with my little guys but wish i was allowed to have a few bare bottoms upstairs to grow them out for a few months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Toni and all the others make good points. As for sand... I have sand, and sand moves. Poo may rest on top but still gets on in there when the sand moves with cleaning, fish swimming, corydoras eating, plecos kicking up stuff, etc. I'm an advocate for growing discus in planted tanks for experiments but I'll swallow my pride and say in 99 times out 100 will you grow discus out in a planted as big as you could do in a bare bottom. in my case, i just don't care to get them as big as possible... in your case, it sounds like you still want to achieve that max potential and i think in the end if you spare a few months of ugly, boring, jail-house looking bare bottom tanks (sorry bare bottomers) then you'll be happy with the size they reach prior to throwing them into a show tank. i'm just doing with what i got but sounds like you've got a choice, boss. as before though.... either way... keep me posted!

[Pancho]

Hi Karl,

If you're saying 6 discus per tank for a total of 24, I'm assuming that you have 4 40g breeders.

I know you say that you don't like the look of a barebottom tank, but think of it this way.

You can save money in the long run, and get 12 gorgeous discus into your 180 in much less than one year, with a LOT less work and worry, if you follow a different plan.

1) Buy twelve 3.5" - 4" discus from a reputable sponsor here on the forums. Place 6 each in 2 of the tanks.

2) Paint the bottoms of the tanks white or off white, add 2 sponge filters and one heater per tank.

3) Feed your discus twice in the morning before you leave for work. 1 feeding of discus flakes, 1 feeding of freeze dried blackworms or freeze dried bloodworms. (I put the worms into a Lee's feeder cone turned upside down so that they can graze on them for a long period of time without any mess)

4) Feed them Frozen beefheart twice when you get home from work, then do your 50% water change on each tank and finish off with another FDBW feeding.

They will quickly reach 6" or more and be ready to transfer to your decorated 180. Mine took about 2 1/2 months to reach 6", starting at 4".

Two months with 2 barebottom tanks really isn't all that horrible to look at and you'll thank yourself every night when you do the water changes and don't have to spend a ton of time sucking at the sand and vacuuming around the driftwood.

I actually do a 90% water change on a 55g and a 30g tank every night...both are barebottom. Draining them takes about 7 minutes for the big tank and 4 minute for the small tank. Refill is 10 minutes for the big tank and 6 minutes for the small tank. So total time I spend is less than one hour. For 2 40g tanks that would be about 35 minutes total time to drain and refill. If you use 2 python systems you can drain both at the same time to save even more time.

+++1

[karlsfish]

Strawberryblonde, do you age your water or just fill from the sink with your python?

[strawberryblonde]

I just fill right from the sink, but then again, my pH doesn't shift much, and since I'm changing water every day, it never has a chance to shift in any way that will harm my discus. =)

If yours shifts more than .04 during the 24 hour aging period you might want to consider aging your water and then filling the tanks using a pump and tubing. That way is an even faster fill up!