Discus Threesome

[diner007]

Discus threesome
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I have a threesome going on in my community tank. In the photo you can see the female golden panthera (white based, top), the male albino leoperd (middle) and male red catana (wild cross, bottom). The catana and panthera leoperd was introduced in the tank on the same day. From the next day these 3 started threesome. I see the albino dragon and golden panthera always together like a pair. However the albino dragon never gets his tube out to fertilize the eggs, however the red catana instead gets his tube out and swipe his credit card thoroughly on the eggs. During this process he gets beaten by the albino dragon but he sticks around and keep swiping his tube. Since this is a community tank they always eat the egg after the laying but i have found the male albino dragon more negligible towards the eggs since he is more interested in breeding again but never does his part of the job with his tube. Once again, in summary, the male albino and female golden panthera are always together like a real pair but while laying eggs the albino dragon doesn’t do his job. In contrast the catana male is NOT always with the female golden panthera like a pair, but he is always around while the female lays eggs for swiping his tube.

In this circumstance, if I really want to breed, which 2 should separate? Also what type of offspring I will get?

Thank you in advance and I am expecting answers from breeding experts. As a non-expert please excuse my ignorance and dont be rude in your replies.

[danotaylor]

…and dont be rude in your replies.

[brewmaster15]

Discus threesome
———————————
I have a threesome going on in my community tank. In the photo you can see the female golden panthera (white based, top), the male albino leoperd (middle) and male red catana (wild cross, bottom). The catana and panthera leoperd was introduced in the tank on the same day. From the next day these 3 started threesome. I see the albino dragon and golden panthera always together like a pair. However the albino dragon never gets his tube out to fertilize the eggs, however the red catana instead gets his tube out and swipe his credit card thoroughly on the eggs. During this process he gets beaten by the albino dragon but he sticks around and keep swiping his tube. Since this is a community tank they always eat the egg after the laying but i have found the male albino dragon more negligible towards the eggs since he is more interested in breeding again but never does his part of the job with his tube. Once again, in summary, the male albino and female golden panthera are always together like a real pair but while laying eggs the albino dragon doesn’t do his job. In contrast the catana male is NOT always with the female golden panthera like a pair, but he is always around while the female lays eggs for swiping his tube.

In this circumstance, if I really want to breed, which 2 should separate? Also what type of offspring I will get?

Thank you in advance and I am expecting answers from breeding experts. As a non-expert please excuse my ignorance and dont be rude in your replies.

I always try not to be Rude but sometimes , well,its all some people understand.

So,politely speaking, these match upd aren't great as far as predicting outcome. the Albino there, the Dragon? I think that strain is pigeon based ..if so, crossing it to the Panthera will probably give you peppered offspring in the F1.. And all.the offspring will carry the albino gene but not express it. F2 some would express albino,.some would not but they would carry it and some not have albino genes at all


If you crossed the wild cross to the Panthera we really dont know enough to draw conclusions... it depends on what the genetics are of the wild cross.

Personally I think I would go with the wild cross x panthera as neither looks pigeon based and the offspring could be very interesting.

[diner007]

I always try not to be Rude but sometimes , well,its all some people understand.

So,politely speaking, these match upd aren't great as far as predicting outcome. the Albino there, the Dragon? I think that strain is pigeon based ..if so, crossing it to the Panthera will probably give you peppered offspring in the F1.. And all.the offspring will carry the albino gene but not express it. F2 some would express albino,.some would not but they would carry it and some not have albino genes at all


If you crossed the wild cross to the Panthera we really dont know enough to draw conclusions... it depends on what the genetics are of the wild cross.

Personally I think I would go with the wild cross x panthera as neither looks pigeon based and the offspring could be very interesting.

Dear Al
good to hear from you. The Red Catana (wild cross) was bred from red alenquer X curiper, this is what ricky lim the breeder told me. Hope this gives some idea about the genetics it has.

The albino dragon was bred by robert lim and i bought from Chicago discus. it doesn’t look a pigeon based to me, but i am not an expert. In no circumstances i would like to get peppered offspring for sure! Does it mean i should never try to breed him?

[brewmaster15]

An albino discus will never show pepper because of its albino genes but when you breed a non albino to albino you will get all fish that carry the albino gene but do not express it as "non-albino" (aka wild type) is Dominent and "albino" is recessive. I am not sure if your Dragon is pigeon based or not but I seem to remember it was.

If it is you can still breed this albino just pick either another albino or pick a clean pigeon blood to breed to and you should be fine. The main problem with using the albino dragon here is the unknown factor of whether peppering will occur. Whenever you cross a pigeon to non pigeon (your Panthera) peppered offspring are likely.

The wild cross x Pathera could give you something very interesting in the first or second generation.Its hard to tell because we don't know really what the genetics are in the Golden Panthera.. I am biased there as to me crosses are like reverse engineering discus to figure out how the strains we have were made. Others breed like to like which is important to as it gives your predictability (things breed "true")

[diner007]

An albino discus will never show pepper because of its albino genes but when you breed a non albino to albino you will get all fish that carry the albino gene but do not express it as "non-albino" (aka wild type) is Dominent and "albino" is recessive. I am not sure if your Dragon is pigeon based or not but I seem to remember it was.

If it is you can still breed this albino just pick either another albino or pick a clean pigeon blood to breed to and you should be fine. The main problem with using the albino dragon here is the unknown factor of whether peppering will occur. Whenever you cross a pigeon to non pigeon (your Panthera) peppered offspring are likely.

The wild cross x Pathera could give you something very interesting in the first or second generation.Its hard to tell because we don't know really what the genetics are in the Golden Panthera.. I am biased there as to me crosses are like reverse engineering discus to figure out how the strains we have were made. Others breed like to like which is important to as it gives your predictability (things breed "true")

Thank you dear al. Is there any resource available where i can learn more about such issues related to breeding? Also I am always confused how to determine a pigeon gene in a discus unless the name says it or the discus is already widely known to have pigeon gene. How to know that ?

[brewmaster15]

Unfortunately not as far as resources to learn about breeding the best one is right here on the forum.. Spend some time reading through the breeding sub forum here.. theres all you would ever need to know there.

As for pigeons.. its kind of a learned thing. But if it has any pepper on it ,its a pigeon. Your albino may or may not be one because the albinism masks it.

Most breeders have moved away from pigeons or bred them out to goldens so much alot of the newer strains have little pepper but.. these are some strains ...

red,gold,white faced mellons
checkerboards
pearl pigeons
panda
marlboro red
Red eagles
pigeon snakeskins
tangarine dreams
White butterflies
blue butterflies

Im sure I missed a bunch.

Again ..if theres pepper its a pigeon, even a little.

[diner007]

Unfortunately not as far as resources to learn about breeding the best one is right here on the forum.. Spend some time reading through the breeding sub forum here.. theres all you would ever need to know there.

As for pigeons.. its kind of a learned thing. But if it has any pepper on it ,its a pigeon. Your albino may or may not be one because the albinism masks it.

Most breeders have moved away from pigeons or bred them out to goldens so much alot of the newer strains have little pepper but.. these are some strains ...

red,gold,white faced mellons
checkerboards
pearl pigeons
panda
marlboro red
Red eagles
pigeon snakeskins
tangarine dreams
White butterflies
blue butterflies

Im sure I missed a bunch.

Again ..if theres pepper its a pigeon, even a little.

wow, I am shocked to see white butterfly in the pigeon list, speechless. !

[brewmaster15]

White Butterflies are the result of crossing a pigeon to a non pigeon and selecting the cleanest offspring..even the cleanest will have pigeon blood genes. often even in a batch of white butterfly fry the degree of peppering will vary. Clean white Butterflies are not that easy to come by

[diner007]

White Butterflies are the result of crossing a pigeon to a non pigeon and selecting the cleanest offspring..even the cleanest will have pigeon blood genes. often even in a batch of white butterfly fry the degree of peppering will vary. Clean white Butterflies are not that easy to come by

Thanks for the info, i learned very interesting facts today from you. Last question, by blue butterfly did you mean blue scorpions?

[brewmaster15]

Thanks for the info, i learned very interesting facts today from you. Last question, by blue butterfly did you mean blue scorpions?

Glad to help! The Blue scorpions you mentioned are probably blue scorpion snakeskins.. not pigeon based. They are a form.of blue Snakekins .

Blue butterflies kind of look like smutty blue diamonds or white butterflies.. The are blie based with a charcoal dusting.. One I have here..

[diner007]

Got it, thanks. Many breeders/sellers call them sapphire blue/mercury blue, metallic blue etc for marketing purposes it seems.

[brewmaster15]

Exactly

[Wilsted34]

I am not seeing how that is a golden leopard panthera, it looks like a pigeon type discus to me (where did you get her from)? Im also confused on how the Albino Dragon is considered a Leopard. Leopard discus dont have thick vertical bars like that.

[diner007]

I am not seeing how that is a golden leopard panthera, it looks like a pigeon type discus to me (where did you get her from)? Im also confused on how the Albino Dragon is considered a Leopard. Leopard discus dont have thick vertical bars like that.

i got it from Myrtel beach discus, originally bred by Tony tan, i hope you know tony
tony, winson lau they all breed similar looking golden panthera, go to their facebook page and ull see them.

You are right, that’s an albino dragon, however i am not sure how albino dragons are bred (parents??)