Is it gill flukes or something else?

[diner007]

Dear Friends

This discus of mine is acting normal, nothing strange yet. However, his gills looks strange to me. It looks very expanded suddenly (the clear whitish layer you can see also). He is not scratching on objects, so can't blame gill flukes. I am attaching the video, please suggest your opinion.
Video link:

https://youtu.be/--3KKlWxkDo?si=6cdGJk0pFQKo3pXB

https://youtube.com/shorts/29udW5B7Ro0?feature=share

Note, my pH is 7.8, water is 0,0,5-7, nitrate never crosses 10. I just used praziquantel from Hiakri, but I am not sure if it will help since he is not scratching, or shaking head. But the gill looks very expanded. He is breathing through both gills so far and looks active. I always use aquarium salt 1tbsp/10 gallon during WC.

[danotaylor]

The gill membrane is definitely inflamed. What are your water parameters?
How long have you had the fish for?
Any recent additions?
Was it recently shipped?

[diner007]

The gill membrane is definitely inflamed. What are your water parameters?
How long have you had the fish for?
Any recent additions?
Was it recently shipped?

no recent changes, i have it for last 2 months. i ordered all my discus at once 2 months ago. pH is 7.8, ammonia, nitrite are 0, nitrate is around 5. I never allow my nitrate to cross 10. Its always less than 10. Once i noticed i am changing 50% every day for last 3 days. I noticed no change though. I always use aquarium salt 1tbsp/10 gallon. Not sure what else i can do to resolve this

[danotaylor]

You water quality & parameters are good, as is your increased WC schedule and use of salt.
What was your WC schedule prior to noticing the gill flaring?
City water, RO or a mix?
Do you age the water you use for water changes?
Micro bubbles from gas pressurization in city water supply can irritate discus.
Hopefully one of our more experienced discus keepers chimes in here with suggestions &/or possible treatment options.

[diner007]

You water quality & parameters are good, as is your increased WC schedule and use of salt.
What was your WC schedule prior to noticing the gill flaring?
City water, RO or a mix?
Do you age the water you use for water changes?
Micro bubbles from gas pressurization in city water supply can irritate discus.
Hopefully one of our more experienced discus keepers chimes in here with suggestions &/or possible treatment options.

I use tap water with 24 hour aging. A week ago i had to do an emergency WC without aging, thats the only time i didn’t do aging.

i hope someone will help with a medication suggestion, I am still waiting though.

[danotaylor]

Can you explain the tank condition that prompted the emergency water change? Did the timing of that situation coincide with the recognition of the gill flaring?
It is possible you don’t need a medication solution. Clean aged water w salt often deals with irritations from ammonia spikes or nitrite poisoning which can cause inflammation. The fish in question looks healthy otherwise; good color, no wasting, no stress bars and it’s eating. All good signs of more of an irritant vs pathogen.
I would suggest in the meantime increasing the salt concentration to 1tbsp/5gal as this will promote healing, slime coat production and soothe the irritates gill lining

[diner007]

Can you explain the tank condition that prompted the emergency water change? Did the timing of that situation coincide with the recognition of the gill flaring?
It is possible you don’t need a medication solution. Clean aged water w salt often deals with irritations from ammonia spikes or nitrite poisoning which can cause inflammation. The fish in question looks healthy otherwise; good color, no wasting, no stress bars and it’s eating. All good signs of more of an irritant vs pathogen.
I would suggest in the meantime increasing the salt concentration to 1tbsp/5gal as this will promote healing, slime coat production and soothe the irritates gill lining

Hi,
the emergency was due to fact that one of my fish died. I can assure that it was NOT due to illness, she was constantly bullied, and stopped eating for about a month. I was not able to judge the seriousness of the situation and she died of not eating it seems, she was always scared of the bully discus and was not interested in eating. It was not due to internal parasites or something else as far as I can judge. She was doing fine, as usual not eating and hiding and being bullied. Next morning i found her dead in a corner. I got upset, scared and the other fish also look stressed that morning, so i did an emergency 80% WC. The next day everything went back to normal. Please note, i did several water test to cross verify results and the results were 0,0,5. So ammonia is out of equation it seems.

i always use 1tbsp/10 gallon and replace the salt after wc. Each WC is also followed by stress guard and prime of course. Do you think i should increase the salt amount which will solve the problem? The fish I am concerned about behaving normal till now but again i am worried about the gill extension/inflammation.

please see this new video taken just now and ull see his gill situation:

https://youtu.be/--3KKlWxkDo?si=6cdGJk0pFQKo3pXB

[danotaylor]

As we wait on the ole school crew to respond I think it would be a great idea to fill out the disease questionnaire.
you have given some of this info already but by filling it out it will provide a concise and sequential picture of what’s going on so that we can reason towards a diagnosis…

https://forum.simplydiscus.com/forum/main-discus-topics/disease-sickness-and-medication/emergency-room/15340-disease-questionnaire-please-complete

[brewmaster15]

Dear Friends

This discus of mine is acting normal, nothing strange yet. However, his gills looks strange to me. It looks very expanded suddenly (the clear whitish layer you can see also). He is not scratching on objects, so can't blame gill flukes. I am attaching the video, please suggest your opinion.
Video link:

https://youtu.be/--3KKlWxkDo?si=6cdGJk0pFQKo3pXB

https://youtube.com/shorts/29udW5B7Ro0?feature=share

Note, my pH is 7.8, water is 0,0,5-7, nitrate never crosses 10. I just used praziquantel from Hiakri, but I am not sure if it will help since he is not scratching, or shaking head. But the gill looks very expanded. He is breathing through both gills so far and looks active. I always use aquarium salt 1tbsp/10 gallon during WC.

Hi,
Took a look at the videos and suspect one of a few things possible. So first option is still gill flukes even though the fish isn't flashing. As Discus get older they don't always flash off things which is more common in the younger the fish. I would rule these out first. The easiest way is to do a round of Praziquantel and then follow up with a few treatments of formalin. Thats going to knock back any flukes dramatically and you should see improvement. Prazi alone can have mixed results as there are reports of resistance in flukes (undocumented). Another option is to do a salt dip which can be very effective.

On the subject of salt, I would stop the regularly use of it. Its not needed for discus and may harm them in the long run. Best to treat it as a medicine and use it only when needed. A salt dip as mentioned above will be more effective if you remove the salt from your tank first.

The gills of your fish are inflamed, that could be from flukes or bacteria. Prazi will not help if bacterial , and bacterial gill disease is unusual in well maintained tanks. There is condition though that can't be ruled out where the gills develop scar tissue and that is not something you can fix. Its caused by extended infections with flukes, or toxic chemicals like caustic oxidizers (PP, chlorine etc) or ammonia (oxidizer/reducer). Scar tissue like this is often caused by damage done when the fish are younger and it doesn't show until the fish are older, but it can happen anytime.

Last note, try and keep a level head here, Don't rush into treatments. This condition isn't something thats going to wipe out your tank but its something you do want to get a handle on.

hth
al

ps.. Dannys suggestion for the questionnaire is a good one, ,may help us see the whole picture

[diner007]

Hi,
Took a look at the videos and suspect one of a few things possible. So first option is still gill flukes even though the fish isn't flashing. As Discus get older they don't always flash off things which is more common in the younger the fish. I would rule these out first. The easiest way is to do a round of Praziquantel and then follow up with a few treatments of formalin. Thats going to knock back any flukes dramatically and you should see improvement. Prazi alone can have mixed results as there are reports of resistance in flukes (undocumented). Another option is to do a salt dip which can be very effective.

On the subject of salt, I would stop the regularly use of it. Its not needed for discus and may harm them in the long run. Best to treat it as a medicine and use it only when needed. A salt dip as mentioned above will be more effective if you remove the salt from your tank first.

The gills of your fish are inflamed, that could be from flukes or bacteria. Prazi will not help if bacterial , and bacterial gill disease is unusual in well maintained tanks. There is condition though that can't be ruled out where the gills develop scar tissue and that is not something you can fix. Its caused by extended infections with flukes, or toxic chemicals like caustic oxidizers (PP, chlorine etc) or ammonia (oxidizer/reducer). Scar tissue like this is often caused by damage done when the fish are younger and it doesn't show until the fish are older, but it can happen anytime.

Last note, try and keep a level head here, Don't rush into treatments. This condition isn't something thats going to wipe out your tank but its something you do want to get a handle on.

hth
al

ps.. Dannys suggestion for the questionnaire is a good one, ,may help us see the whole picture

thank you very much. What medication in US has formalin in it, can you suggest so that i can try after prazi? The next question I have is about bacterial issues. If it were a bacterial issue, which medication should be used, api body&fin?

i will stop using salt as you mentioned

[brewmaster15]

I use this from Amazon..

Screenshot_20241104_172603.jpg

1 ml per 10 gals...every other day for 5 treatments

be sure to do large water changes daily before dosing.. 75% at least. If you can add extra aeration .. thats great as formalin consumes oxygen. Keep the temps in the low 80s.

Formalin can knock back your biofilter so monitor ammonia and nitrite and do not use formalin with Salt.

As for the bacteria possibility I really don't think your fish is likely to have it and would advise to take things one step at a time. .. you don't want to treat needlessly . However as a matter of general interest.. kanamycin or nitrofurazone are broad spectrum enough for external.. based on your pH I would consider Kanamycin should it ever be needed.

[diner007]

I use this from Amazon..

Screenshot_20241104_172603.jpg

1 ml per 10 gals...every other day for 5 treatments

be sure to do large water changes daily before dosing.. 75% at least. If you can add extra aeration .. thats great as formalin consumes oxygen. Keep the temps in the low 80s.

Formalin can knock back your biofilter so monitor ammonia and nitrite and do not use formalin with Salt.

As for the bacteria possibility I really don't think your fish is likely to have it and would advise to take things one step at a time. .. you don't want to treat needlessly . However as a matter of general interest.. kanamycin or nitrofurazone are broad spectrum enough for external.. based on your pH I would consider Kanamycin should it ever be needed.

Thank you very much, it means i need to use formaldehyde in one day and next day 75% wc and continue like this, right?
i am worried about the low 80s temperature you mentioned since my tank is at 86, i hope lowering to 82 wont be harmful for them.

thank you very much once again. For now based on your suggestion, ill start prazi pro for week 1. If things get better then ill understand that it was flukes and ill proceed with formaldehyde next week. If prazi doesn’t improve or if the fish doest get worse, then perhaps ill need to assume that its a scar tissue problem and i can do nothing about it.

[brewmaster15]

You can easily and quickly go from 86 to 82 in a discus tank. I do it the time in my breeders.. worse thing that will happen is you may trigger spawning.

on the formalin .. yes. Day one dose after 75% water change.. Day 2 wc.. Day 3 water change and dose.. day 4 wc.. day 5 waterchange and dose. You will be doing a wc daily and dosing every other day for 5 doses .

use a syringe with ml markings and dont breath that stuff or get it in your eyes. Its a nasty chemical but short term its a mainstay in aquaculture

[diner007]

You can easily and quickly go from 86 to 82 in a discus tank. I do it the time in my breeders.. worse thing that will happen is you may trigger spawning.

on the formalin .. yes. Day one dose after 75% water change.. Day 2 wc.. Day 3 water change and dose.. day 4 wc.. day 5 waterchange and dose. You will be doing a wc daily and dosing every other day for 5 doses .

use a syringe with ml markings and dont breath that stuff or get it in your eyes. Its a nasty chemical but short term its a mainstay in aquaculture

Thank you very much, can’t thank you enough.

[diner007]

You can easily and quickly go from 86 to 82 in a discus tank. I do it the time in my breeders.. worse thing that will happen is you may trigger spawning.

on the formalin .. yes. Day one dose after 75% water change.. Day 2 wc.. Day 3 water change and dose.. day 4 wc.. day 5 waterchange and dose. You will be doing a wc daily and dosing every other day for 5 doses .

use a syringe with ml markings and dont breath that stuff or get it in your eyes. Its a nasty chemical but short term its a mainstay in aquaculture

Dear Al
can you suggest a safe dose of formalin to kill detritus worms without harming the biofilter and fishes?