Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

[John_Nicholson]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

Good lord Shawn it was an example to drive home a point. Judging from your reaction it apparently worked. Not sure how I am a horrible person because I disagree with you, but I would love to discuss it with you. I have no hard feelings here. Really I would.

-john

[pastry]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

John, I don't think anyone's going to come on here and think it's a good way to keep discus. We do a pretty good job chasing new people off on this site with the way we critique one another. Whenever a hobbyist who knows how to do it the "right" way tries to do an experiment in here that may involve breaking some rules to learn something then the most annoying, disheartening, and demotivating thing to experience is someone on every single page of a thread remind everyone how it's not the right thing and how all the fish aren't going to be NADA quality if you do it that way. I, for one, have one tank and so I can't do these experiments. I really enjoy reading about these experiments. So, how can we figure out a way on SD to do these experiments without constant critiquing which distracts from the thread's intent?

[pastry]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

Man, posts are going too quick. Wish there was a way to PM 3-ways so we could take this off-line.

[shawnhu]

Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

John, I've also got an example for you.

Hi Shawn - I totally agree with your description of some of the members here being 'narrow minded' . . . Some members, I'm afraid, are also extremely rude are arrogant.

I decide to stop posting on this site because of this - I wonder how many other people have decided on a similar course of action? Sad!

Anonymous

Hey Shawn, I've been impressed with your attitude and responses to the "faithful" I can't tell you how many times I had a post typed in but then deleted it. Keep up the good work!

I speak not only for myself.

[Kal-El]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

John, you may be respected around here for your Discus knowledge, but in my book you are a pretty horrible person. I would NEVER bring your wife your kids, or anyone else you loved into this conversation. This is about Discus, don't try to make it into anything else.

For you to use my unborn child as a platform for attack is downright low and dirty. The reason I've had to pull away from these fish is because of complications in my wife's pregnancy and her health, but you've made it apparent that you could careless about others. Because all you see, is that my methods differs from yours, and you seem to have something to prove by bashing on others.

There's quite a few things I want to say but I'll hold back, as I've stated earlier, I'll continue to update as long as I can for those that have given me support. I will not risk locking this thread for the likes of you, John.

Way to go Shawn for keeping your head high and not letting other push you around when they don't agree with your method/experiment. I'm sure you will be moving those guys to a bigger tank eventually so I do look forward to seeing how they look like as adults. I will keep you and your wife in my prayers. Praying for a Healthy pregnancy and that you'll be with your unborn child in no time. Best of luck...

[John_Nicholson]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

Very good point Pastry and I am absolutely behind experiments. The trouble with the web is we lose all of the non-verbal communication that we would have face to face. This causes people to jump to the wrong conclusions a lot of the time. I think it often gets off to the wrong foot because most of these experiments have been done in the past and have failed. As old timers we try to relay that hard won knowledge to the new folks but we get told that we are stuck in our ways. Most of the time the person conducting the "experiment" disappears without ever completing the experiments. Most of the time it is because the fish died but for a new person searching the web it gives the appearance that it might have worked. I really am not near the grouchy old man that I appear......and I rarely get mad over these discussions.

-john

[Skip]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

There are 2 ways to raise discus.
One benefits the fish to have best environment for growth and development
Time consuming and takes more effort

The other benefits owner with limited time, energy, resources, for fish
Less time and money put into fish but you still have fish alive in glass box

[John_Nicholson]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

Folks I am a father of 3 and a grandfather of 2 I wish him and his child nothing but the best so ya'll might as well move on from that one.

-john

[pastry]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

While some readers may think this is a thread gone bad I actually think this has been well overdue. Eventhough John still thinks everything is bigger in Texas and Shawn smells funny because he's from NYC, they're both good dudes but represent two sides to one coin. One wants the quality of discus and discus threads not potentially lead new owners in the wrong direction while another wants to experiment in order to share results (whether good or bad) for us discus owners who become bored with reading the same new owner/potential owner threads yet only have one or two tanks to play with. Soooo… we really need to figure out a way to post experiments on here without the need for safeguarding from the rookie owners. Constant safeguarding really does feel like a constant kick in the nuts to the OP’s while the people who are doing the “kicking” don't really have any intent on doing that.

Also suggest if there’s a way a mod could possibly think of a way for us to do those types of posts (or start a different thread on ideas) while trying to get Shawn’s thread back on the focus of what he’s doing. (just a suggestion!!! Happy Friday!!!! I think everyone needs happy hour to come sooner!!!!! Don’t tell my boss that I’m not working!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[brewmaster15]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

Shawn,
I hope all is well with you and Amy and the baby.. Always..always...family first.

All... Since I set this contest up, I'd really like to re-instate why. There have been thousands of ways advocated for raising discus...some work well...some not so well. Problem is..its usually stated as whats worked for so and so and what hasn't but you never really see the details and the proof.... which is fine..if you want to wade thru hearsay and regurgitated Discus Lore and follow advice given.... Thats not what this is about.

Its about showing what works and what doesn't. The proof is in the results. It an experiment people... and the beauty is it helps answer the questions of what works and doesn't not with references to how long so and so has done this or that...but with concrete pics and videos....as such even when something happens that causes the fish to be neglected... it has value....it shows why we do what we...and shows what happens when we don't.

Will shawns fish win the contest...not likely...but every bit of data that is acquired is valuable.

Sometime down the road....someone may come on Simply with grand ideas of how some of us are doing things wrong or unnecessarily.... when that happens we could have the same old tired arguements...and probably will. But they will be alot shorter if we can use some of whats being learned in this contest.

Thats my views at least. I would like Shawn to keep going with updates if he wants, even if not in the contest. I'd also enjoy seeing these fish down the road if he ever moves them up into a bigger tank.

Its all about increasing the knowledge base everyone....at least thats what I envisioned when I started these contests... If you look thru the archives and read the other 2 contests, and this one..you will truly SEE what works and doesn't.

Hope that helps.. and I hope that we can keep the dialogue going....discussion is good.

-al

[Chad Hughes]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

Alright....

Looks like Al beat me to the punch!

I think everyone has made their point on how they feel about the approach shawnhu is taking in raising these fish in this thread.

To be honest, this thread has migrated too far away from discus and more towards "my way is better". How about we just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

I'll leave it up to the forum owner to clean up the off track items if desired. Let's grow up a bit. Thanks!

[shawnhu]

Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

Al, Chad, Pat, thanks for chiming in. Al, theres nothing I want more from this thread but to continue reporting and updates of these little guys. They may not amass to anything worthy in some peoples eyes, but if it helps but one person, it would have been worth it. I leave it up to the readers to decide what they take from this experiment.

[nc0gnet0]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

I think if you were to do so the information could prove to be some of the most valuable of the entire contest. Maybe not for the reasons you had originally hoped, but valuable none-the-less. The better the documentation, the more value the content will have, even if it is just a few words and a photo, being able to view the progression in a more consistant/timely fashion would be a huge plus.

Rick

[shawnhu]

Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

Rick, not sure what you are implying when you refer to what my hopes were, but if it's referring to winning the contest, that was not my goal.

I originally entered the contest to follow the guidelines layer forth as a means to measure, give folks an idea of a timeline. It was my intention to follow through until the end for myself, and other folks to see the end result of this non-traditional way. Life threw me a few curve balls and here we are today.

[Skip]

Re: Withdrawn - First attempt at breeding Discus - Log

Life threw me a few curve balls and here we are today.

ain't that the truth!

it happens to all of us..