Trier20 - Cedar Rapids, Iowa, USA

[Keith Perkins]

Re: July 31 2012 Spawn

Love the clove oil analogy Rick, not often I smile before 8 AM.

And Brandon, it's only a matter of time before you're constantly changing water on little ones. Hang in there.

[Alfredo Llecha]

Re: July 31 2012 Spawn

I have raised young fry off of an almost exclusive diet of FDBW and never had this issue, so I do not beleive this to be the case. But then again I am not sure what you mean. If your saying low calcium content in the water coupled with low calcium content in the feed then maybe, but if your saying too many FDBW's regardless of water content (in regards to calcium and trace elements) then I can say conclusively that is not the case. It's just much easier to monitor Calcium levels in water than it is in the feed.

I might also add that in regards to the levels of Calcium+ in the water, there is a point of diminishing returns. While water that is too soft can be a major factor, it doesn't take a lot to grow healthy fry. In other words, once you hit a certain point, adding more does nothing and is not neccesarily better. For instance, with my water I know that if I raise fry in straight RO that measures in the neighborhood of 30 TDS, I can get a very high rate of short gill plates and very "beaky" looking fish, but by simply raising this level to 60-70 TDS, all these issues disapear. Raising the levels further has little to no impact on growth or rate of deformity.

We both are right. The fishes can take Calcium from water, also the fry grows up more rapidly in soft water than in hard water (despite the ratio of shorted gill plates fish). Taking Amazon river as sample, the wild discus should be "shorted gill pates" but they arent. SO they must to take calcium from the feed. Aquatic or terrestrial Arthropods species have a high content of calcium, but black worms are not Arthropods. Also the animals need Phosphorous to build up its skeleton properly. The problem of the Calcium in feed, it is not well metabolized/absorbed as Calcium ion, it should be binded to organic molecules. The Phosphorous is available everywhere and easy to metabolize.

Quite possibly true as well, although it takes quite of bit of PP to kill off a mature sponge filter. The filter can usually "bounce back" with little or no issues, and is a little less suspectable to total die off then other filters like a HOB, but it can happen. If you have low PH levels (often the case with straight RO) it can effect the rate of miosis and retard how fast the beneficial bacteria can bounce back. If your neutralizing the PP with hydrogen peroxide you have to be aware that H202 can nuke a filter too.

I Agree but H2O2 is beneficial for the nitrifying bateria in right dose.

I loved this part (ie: I agree). Several times I have argued with others regarding the use of salt when treating for gill/breathing issues. The popular misconception is that since salt lowers the breathing rate of fish, it is therefore making thier breathing easier. This is simply not the case. By using this misconception I could also summise that clove oil must also aid in breathing, as it too lowers the resperation rate, and we all know that isn't true.

Rick

Yes, it is true, the fishes seem to breath easy if you add some salt in the water, but in fact they are suffering acidosis and you will end up with unexpected mortality and weird behavior. Raising up temperature and using salt is a killer coctel. Salt MUST to be used in presence of O2, ie: inside sealed bags.

[Trier20]

Re: July 31 2012 Spawn

Love the clove oil analogy Rick, not often I smile before 8 AM.

And Brandon, it's only a matter of time before you're constantly changing water on little ones. Hang in there.

Keith we still need to have our meeting...of drinking beer!

[Keith Perkins]

Re: July 31 2012 Spawn

Indeed Brandon.

[Trier20]

Re: July 31 2012 Spawn

Indeed Brandon.

I will try to talk Mandi into a trip to see her sis and then we can have our top secret discus club meeting I mean artisan beer discussion. Bill can come if he has time too I guess. I'll try to find a weekend

[xKevinx]

Re: July 31 2012 Spawn

Ouch, wish I'd been cognizant of that I surely would have said something quickly. I'm sure now though it's a lesson you'll never forget, at least if you're anything like me. Seems like the hard lessons learned first hand are always the ones I remember best.

+1

[Trier20]

Re: July 31 2012 Spawn

Withdrew about 5 months ago. Please move this thread to the withdrawn section. Thank you!