I need some help with my green tank

[Greg-Florida]

Hello all,

I'm new here but have been picking up a lot of advice here for my son's Discus tank I found myself responsible for recently. I'm thankful to have found this forum and especially with Al at the helm!
I've had freshwater tanks before and have maintained my son's tanks before but I'm still quite the novice and find myself with a problem I'm not able to solve after messing around with it for over 2 weeks.

Problem:
I did a 40% water change 2 weeks ago and the tank became cloudy/foggy within a day and kept getting more cloudy as the days went until finally the water took on a green tint after about a week.
I did another change (35%) 4 days ago and the green continues to get greener.
Last night I changed 5 gallons (17%).
Still green and cloudy - see picture.

This tank has been very stable and easy to care for in the past.
Algae has not been a problem at all except for all the dark algae that covers the decorations.

Here are the particulars:
30 Gal
Tank has been running well for 2+ years
Community fish (22)
No live plants
HOB filter
I usually vac & change 30% to 40% of the water at 3 weeks - I don't get much at all out of the rocks
I use tap water from our charcoal tank and resin softener whole house filter
I add Stress Coat plus with water changes
I've been adding Stress Zyme for the past 8 weeks at half dose (full dose every two weeks rather than weekly)
Large pebble bottom.
My son keeps a bag of ceramic tubes in the HOB filter bottom.
I put new charcoal in yesterday (I put a few tablespoons in the filter sump in a bag) and removed my small bag of ChemiPure that had been in the filter 8 weeks. The filter is flowing and moving water well.
I was using a 2-stage fiber filter pad put over the filter cartridge for additional water clarity for awhile and removed that yesterday also.
For sake of argument I think we can rule out waste buildup and overfeeding.

pH: 8.0 (usually 7.6-7.8)
Ammon: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: I can't tell if it's 40, 80 or 160 - they all look the same red to me but usually runs 40-80. This is before the water change.
Phosphates: 1.0 to 2.0
Temp: 76
What else?



So I'm looking for causes and correction advice or ideas?
Thanks!
Greg

[brewmaster15]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

Hi Greg,
I think you probably want to do a few things different there.

1)ditch the charcoal.. it really isnt doing much and gets spent fast.. then it acts as biological filtration which is fine until you replace it and lose part of your bio filter.

2)ditch the chemi pure It too is great stuff but gets spent fast and then acts as biomedia substrate. In this case when you took it out you probably hurt your biofilter.

3) use sponges instead of filter pads for the same reason as the charcoal and purigen. The pads get dirty and are often removed taking any good biological bacteria with them. A Sponge can be rinsed and reused.. retaining its biological properties.

4) Water changes can help significantly here.. increase those.. I would nix the stress coat and stress zyme.. Try prime instead or something similar. Your nitrates are probably much higher than you think by what you posted for water changes and no live plants in the tank.

5) Modify your light cycle..put the tank on a timer and set that conservatively .. too much light and low water quality can cause blooms like this.

What make and model hob are you using?
Hth,Al

[Greg-Florida]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

Hi Greg,
I think you probably want to do a few things different there.
1)ditch the charcoal.. it really isnt doing much and gets spent fast.. then it acts as biological filtration which is fine until you replace it and lose part of your bio filter.
2)ditch the chemi pure It too is great stuff but gets spent fast and then acts as biomedia substrate. In this case when you took it out you probably hurt your biofilter.
3) use sponges instead of filter pads for the same reason as the charcoal and purigen. The pads get dirty and are often removed taking any good biological bacteria with them. A Sponge can be rinsed and reused.. retaining its biological properties.
4) Water changes can help significantly here.. increase those.. I would nix the stress coat and stress zyme.. Try prime instead or something similar. Your nitrates are probably much higher than you think by what you posted for water changes and no live plants in the tank.
5) Modify your light cycle..put the tank on a timer and set that conservatively .. too much light and low water quality can cause blooms like this.
What make and model hob are you using?
Hth,Al

Yes, those tips are great, thank you. I need a little clarification.
Replies to yours:
1) I'll ditch the extra charcoal. There is some charcoal in the replacement cartridges I buy which you are suggesting to replace with a sponge. So are you suggesting to use no charcoal anywhere at all?
2) Makes sense, learning all the time.
3) Can you recommend any specs like density or thickness? So I cut in a rectangle and use in place of the cartridge I presume. It would have to be a bit rigid, cartridge is about 5" x 7".
4) Good, I'll increase and get some Prime and cease the stress zyme. I am generally from the "less is more" camp.
5) The light runs 9 to 9 now with now direct window light. Should I go to maybe 8 or 10 hours?

We have a Marineland Penguin 275. It has the biowheel and move water well. I've cleaned the pump, tubes and sump 6 months ago.

So I'll start simplifying and change more often. Right now it's still getting greener :-(
Thanks again!
Greg

[brewmaster15]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

HI Greg,
For sponges, a quick fix is replacement sponges for the aquaclear filters.. they can be cut to fit the marine land. The biowheels are fine to keep using...

You could add a hydro sponge to the tank if you dont mind the looks..

You really want to.up your water changes.. try at least 30 to 40 % day until your water stabilizes or even more.

Carbon is an excellent filter material which is its flaw.. it gets spent fast and the dirtier your water.. the faster it gets spent. The goal is clean water.. Discus keepers tend to rely on water changes to achieve that when coupled with good biological filters. You can achieve it with lots of filter media but it means changing that often...more often than you are. Water changes are always the quickest way to deal with water quality problems. Once the issue is under control you can try to use various media to minimize the water quality issues.

At least, thats what I would do.Others could probably advise better. I tend to treat all tanks like a discus tank.

[jwcarlson]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

I use a coarse sponge like this: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/sponge-pad-coarse

Cut that to fit where the filter cartridge goes. Then put some batting or filter floss on the output side of that. In the remaining space, some kind of biomedia. In mesh bags if possible.
I would agree with Al on everything else, but would suggest you only change lots of water until you get nitrate readings of about 20. Then let it set a week and see what's going on.
Regarding charcoal, I haven't used it for 20+ years.
I can't tell if those are live plants or not, but live plants can certainly help with keeping water parameters in check.

Also test your tap water to make sure you don't have a situation where you have some wild amount of nitrates in the water.

[Greg-Florida]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

HI Greg,
For sponges, a quick fix is replacement sponges for the aquaclear filters.. they can be cut to fit the marine land. The biowheels are fine to keep using...

You could add a hydro sponge to the tank if you dont mind the looks..

You really want to.up your water changes.. try at least 30 to 40 % day until your water stabilizes or even more.

Carbon is an excellent filter material which is its flaw.. it gets spent fast and the dirtier your water.. the faster it gets spent. The goal is clean water.. Discus keepers tend to rely on water changes to achieve that when coupled with good biological filters. You can achieve it with lots of filter media but it means changing that often...more often than you are. Water changes are always the quickest way to deal with water quality problems. Once the issue is under control you can try to use various media to minimize the water quality issues.

At least, thats what I would do.Others could probably advise better. I tend to treat all tanks like a discus tank.

Thank you Al. I'll take action on these items. I will be having some Discus tank questions soon.

[Greg-Florida]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

I use a coarse sponge like this: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/sponge-pad-coarse

Cut that to fit where the filter cartridge goes. Then put some batting or filter floss on the output side of that. In the remaining space, some kind of biomedia. In mesh bags if possible.
I would agree with Al on everything else, but would suggest you only change lots of water until you get nitrate readings of about 20. Then let it set a week and see what's going on.
Regarding charcoal, I haven't used it for 20+ years.
I can't tell if those are live plants or not, but live plants can certainly help with keeping water parameters in check.

Also test your tap water to make sure you don't have a situation where you have some wild amount of nitrates in the water.

Thank you Jacob. I've ordered a sponge and I'll add the floss. Now I know I don't need charcoal, I did not know that.

I have a mesh bag with a good amount of ceramic rings down in the bottom of the "sump" area prior to the filter pad but it just lies in the bottom 2" of that area that's probably 9" deep. Is that sufficient for the additional biomedia?
No live plants. I'll look into that. Thanks again. Greg

[jwcarlson]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

I'd say that you have enough biological filtration, basically everything in the tank as beneficial bacteria on them. So it's not like the filter is the only place it lives.

My comment to change nitrates until you get down to 20 is to (hopefully) get you to the place that you can tell exactly what the situation is and then be able to monitor it from there. Are you using an API test kit or strips or something else for your testing?

[captainandy]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

This is often not an easy problem to fix - even with low phosphates and nitrates, uv offers a quick fix

[bluelagoon]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

Algae needs needs light and nutrients to grow and you have lots of both. The tank doesn't have plants so I would turn the lights off til the green goes away. Maybe 3-5 days. 7-8 hours or less a day lights on for starts. Also you need to change greater more frequent WC's to bring the nutrients down. I have used those cartridge filter in the past and I'd say that they where the worse filters I have ever used. You could loose some of the BB by replacing them every month or so and the cartridges are not cheap to buy. Besides most of those cartridge filters don't have room in them to hold much or any media.

[Greg-Florida]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

This is often not an easy problem to fix - even with low phosphates and nitrates, uv offers a quick fix

It kind of blows my mind because this tank has so clean and easy for so long. It's a good learning experience though. Maybe I've just been lucky all this time.
I sure appreciate all the advice!!
Greg

[Greg-Florida]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

I'd say that you have enough biological filtration, basically everything in the tank as beneficial bacteria on them. So it's not like the filter is the only place it lives.

My comment to change nitrates until you get down to 20 is to (hopefully) get you to the place that you can tell exactly what the situation is and then be able to monitor it from there. Are you using an API test kit or strips or something else for your testing?

Yes, API test kit. Nothing in the tank has changed recently so I'm kind of baffled. In the meantime, I'll keep changing. Did 40% WC last night. And I will test my tap nitrates tonight.
Tank gets NO direct sun but some indirect in this season because the sun is so low in our winter sky to the south. I'm guessing indirect sun helps algae grow?
I can block that sun for now if needed.

[Greg-Florida]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

Algae needs needs light and nutrients to grow and you have lots of both. The tank doesn't have plants so I would turn the lights off til the green goes away. Maybe 3-5 days. 7-8 hours or less a day lights on for starts. Also you need to change greater more frequent WC's to bring the nutrients down. I have used those cartridge filter in the past and I'd say that they where the worse filters I have ever used. You could loose some of the BB by replacing them every month or so and the cartridges are not cheap to buy. Besides most of those cartridge filters don't have room in them to hold much or any media.

BB = bacterial bloom?
I'll kill the lights for awhile, thanks. I'll look into adding some live plants.
These particular cartridges I can find online for $1.25 a piece, Marineland brand originals. They have little carbon in them and I do change them monthly. I'm switching to a sponge now as Jacob suggested.

Lots of great help here, very grateful.
Thanks Mervin!

[jwcarlson]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

BB = beneficial bacteria

I'm not sure that I would change anything in the filter just now. You can leave whatever cartridge is in there... in there. If it's "old" you can rinse it out in a bucket of tank water and put it back. I wouldn't introduce another variable by changing filter media right now. Personally.

[Greg-Florida]

Re: I need some help with my green tank

BB = beneficial bacteria

I'm not sure that I would change anything in the filter just now. You can leave whatever cartridge is in there... in there. If it's "old" you can rinse it out in a bucket of tank water and put it back. I wouldn't introduce another variable by changing filter media right now. Personally.

Gotcha. Right, one or 2 things at a time. Thanks. I'm on a path now and will report back if more assistance is needed.
Learned a lot in this little exercise.
Thank you.