Can you guess what I am?

[MKD]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

Do you have adult pics?

anyway i want you import round fish

[zergling]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

cichlidiots

I literally LOL'd !

[Ryan]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

Oh no..Ryans got more cichlids!

I've yet to find a family of fish as diverse or as entertaining. Anabantoides are probably closest but I'd say they're a distant second.

anyway i want you import round fish

I definitely have the licenses and permits now, and I understand the process. It's just a matter of money, and the fear that they may not sell well and then I'd be stuck with thousands of dollars worth of round fish.

I literally LOL'd !

Cichlidiots is an old term that I remember reading years ago in a magazine. It sounds a bit insulting but it's actually a term of endearment to most cichlid keepers. I rarely hear it anymore though!

[Ryan]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

idk but I cannot stand it any longer, ive been googling far too long to admit since im at work and supposed to be working, im guessing its related to a PBass?

Since everyone gave up (lol), they are Heterochromis multidens. These fish are found throughout the Congo basin but are difficult to get because it's a dangerous area to collect. At one point these were selling for hundreds of dollars a piece, and a colony would go for like $1500, but I got these for a much more reasonable price.

The interesting thing about Heterochromis is that they are considered the most basal African cichlid genus. Oliver Lucanus has nicknamed them "ancient cichlid." They share traits in common with New World cichlids and may be a sister group to New World cichlids. From Cichlid Room Companion:

The phylogenetic position of this remarkable genus has long been a matter of debate. Early authors have placed the various synonyms in the then poorly defined catch-all genera Paratilapia and Pelmatochromis, until Regan (1922) recognized the generic distinctness. Regan (1920, 1922) divided the African cichlids on the basis of the structure of the pharyngeal apophysis in two major groups and placed Heterochromis accordingly in the ‘Tilapia group‘, which was later regarded even as a subfamily (Hoedeman 1947, quoted by Greenwood 1978). Greenwood (1978) rejected Regan‘s grouping and questioned the phylogenetic significance of this character. Oliver (1979) observed the presence of many plesiomorphic characters and was the first to suggest that Heterochromis is a very basal genus, which may be the sister group of the remaining African cichlids, the American Cichlids or both. His 1984 study (quoted by Stiassny 1991) placed this genus near the South American Cichla, whereas Stiassny‘s (1991) own analysis indicated a close relationship to the Asian/Madagascan cichlids, particularly Etroplines. Lippitsch (1995) placed the genus, based on a study of scale morphology and arrangement, as the sister group to all other African and American cichlids. Kullander‘s (1998) study, on the other hand, resulted in a placement of Heterochromis within the Neotropical cichlids, where it appears (as a monotypic subfamily Heterochromidinae) as sister group to all clades except Retroculus and Cichla + Crenicichla. In molecular and combined studies (Farias & al. 2000, Schliewen & Stiassny 2003, Sparks & Smith 2004, Smith & al. 2008)), Heterochromis appeared as sister group to all other African cichlids. Consequently, in the two latter studies, a simplified (as compared to Kullander 1998) sub-familial classification was proposed, with Heterochromis included in the subfamily Pseudocrenilabrinae.

You can see their comparisons to Pbass (Cichla) above. If you look at them long enough, you can definitely see the New World traits in them.

These fish grow up to 11 - 12" and show strong sex dimorphism from 4" or so. Females develop a nice red chest, an orange and black spot in the rear of the dorsal fin, and black freckles on the gill. Males develop dark red/maroon fins and blue eyes, and can also develop a steep forehead like a lot of the New World fish. These pictures are not mine but I pulled them from Google Images for reference:

Male





Female

[jmf3460]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

dang this was my next guess.

[Second Hand Pat]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

Very special cichlids Ryan and very beautiful.
Pat

[Discus-n00b]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

Do they pair up or spawn herem style? I've heard they are pretty mild tempered. I hope you are able to grow these out and breed them! I really like these. The females especially.

[Ryan]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

They pair up. About the breeding, from Cichlid Room Companion:

Heterochromis multidens is a pair-forming substratum brooder. Lucanus (2006, 2007) has given wonderful accounts of its breeding behavior. When the males had attained a length of about 18cm, they started to approach the females with spread fins and tried to entice them to their territories. After short courting, both fish cleaned the spawning substrate. The first clutch contained about 120 eggs loosely arranged on a flat rock. At later occasions, 150 - 200 eggs were produced. While the female stayed always close to the nest, the male, which now assumed a blackish coloration, guarded the territory within a radius of 50-60 cm around the nest. The larvae hatched after about 60 hours (at 27°C) and were deposited in one of several small pits dug by the female. They were frequently moved from one pit to another, often after only one hour, until they start to swim. Both parents led the fry through the aquarium, intruders were chased away by the male. The fry stayed close to their mother until they had reached a length of 1cm, they showed a dark ‘saddle‘ on the back, at 2cm length the typical color pattern of juvenile Heterochromis appeared. The young were fast growing until they had reached a length of 2.5cm.

So they sound very much like New World fish in that regard, too.

I've read everything I can about them, but unfortunately that's not much. So far everyone says they are very peaceful but will eat tiny fish. I have seen photos of them mixed with everything from Apistos to other African cichlids to exCichlasoma atromaculatum. I will probably introduce mine to either severums or Geos after quarantine and see if I can grow them all out together. They're actually a soft water fish coming from a pH of about 6, with a temperature range of maybe 76 - 80F, so they probably would do well with a lot of SA stuff.

[Ardan]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

Ryan,
I think you are the top Cichlidiot I have ever known. I mean that in a really good way. You are really into cichlids and you know your stuff!! WOW! You come up with some cichlids that are rare. Or rare to me.

These are way cool! and BIG! I like them. What size tank are you putting them in?

Thanks for sharing. Very neat!

Ardan

[Ryan]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

Thanks, Ardan. I like to stay on my toes or I get bored.

If all goes well, they'll probably end up in my 210 gallon with severums. Everything I've read says they're peaceful for large fish. I ordered a back issue of Cichlid News which contains an article by Lucanus. I have harassed him enough by email so I figured I'd find most of the answers I'm looking for in that.

There's a 150 sitting on my garage floor that may eventually need something in it, though. That'd be big tank #5...

[Ardan]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

That'd be big tank #5...

Ryan,
What tanks do you have going? and what fish do you have now?
Would love to see pics too

Take care
Ardan

[BrandyK]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

Nice pick-up

[Ryan]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

Ryan,
What tanks do you have going? and what fish do you have now?
Would love to see pics too

Take care
Ardan

Hi Ardan,

Somehow I missed your post. I probably read it early one morning and forgot to reply.

Right now I'm running three 150s and a 210, in addition to several 55s and a couple smaller tanks.

210:
- 6 Heros sp. 'Curare,' wild-caught
- 1 Krobia guianensis, F1 (He's a spare who I had to separate from the pair in the tank below)
- 1 cull angelfish

150:
- 2 Heros severus, wild-caught pair (These are mouthbrooding severums from the Orinoco basin which may not even be called Heros severus now -- see my thread linked above)
- 2 Krobia guianensis, F1 pair
- 4 Geophagus sp. 'Tapajos orange heads', tank bred
- 1 Geophagus parnaibae F2
- 6 Aequidens sp. 'Janero Herrera', wild-caught

150:
- 15 angelfish, mostly assorted domestics and wild crosses. I also have some F3 Peruvians from Angels Plus stock, via a member here on Simply

150:
- 5 Electric Blue Acaras
- 5 Andinoacara latifrons, wild-caught (these are very similar to blue acaras but come from Colombia rather than Trinidad)
- 1 Heros sp. rotkeil female, tank-raised

Then I have some miscellaneous dwarf cichlids and grow-outs in 55s, 40 breeders, 20s, etc. I have 13 hybrid Geos which I posted about here, a pair of F1 Crenicichla notophthalmus dwarf pikes, a small group of F1 Ivanacara adoketa which are coming into breeding age, my wild pair of Heroina isonycterina, a handful of rams (both Bolivian and ramirezi), some Endler's livebearers as dithers, bristlenose plecos in pretty much every tank, and who knows what else I'm forgetting.

Phew. When you type it all out like that, you start to realize you have a problem!

[Ardan]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

Phew. When you type it all out like that, you start to realize you have a problem!

LOL
It is a good problem though

Thanks for sharing all your knowledge!


Ardan

[Ryan]

Re: Can you guess what I am?

Oliver was right when he said they grew slooooooow. These guys are in a 75 gallon and I don't really notice any growth at all since I got them. They're always perky with erect fins. Very elegant little fish so far. They're not that colorful but I'm enjoying them anyway.