Afghanistan

[pastry]

I don't post nor engage into (4) subjects without hesitance:
1. Religion
2. Sexual orientation
3. Race
4. Political affiliation

This thread falls into none of them. If at all else, this is a thread for any veterans to vent. I am slightly messed up in the head right now due to knowing the only way we would've achieved victory is through occupation... of 3-4 generations. The US "Leaders" (NOT Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush... all of them plus congressmen, senators, & general officers) did not educate our nation on what it'd take. Do not blame this on a party.

"What we've learned from history... is that we haven't learned from history."

These 13 service members who died were but babies (if that) when it began. Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan would've been won via true occupation... or we should have left alone altogether so our veterans didn't give in vain. We're a great country (along with our allies) when we're honest about what it'll take... prior to inserting ourselves (occupation of 3-4 generations).

If you're a prior vet of those conflicts, DO NOT think for 1 second that you & your brethren gave in vain. Suicide is B.S. -- speak up, instead. Stick around to prevent anymore short wars... because all 4 of those were short, mismanaged conflicts and created even more enemies... but not because of us.

PM me if you need to talk.

S/F
Elliot

[bluelagoon]

Re: Afghanistan

The mission was to get Osama bin Laden and was completed years ago. We just stayed a little too long. That place will always be hundreds of years in the sticks and probably never will be part of the so called free world. Great to see us leaving. Although I do pity the women and girls who have to be treated like pack animals and the shoulders who have life time wounds and loss of life. When and if we go to war there will always be losses.

[pastry]

Re: Afghanistan

Agree on everything but one... it wasn't always the sticks. Prior to the Taliban, it looked as "western" as the U.S. (1970s vs Now)


Like you said, though... we were there to get bin Laden. We shouldn't have tried to reverse the tide since we didn't have the stamina to stay as long as needed. Would've been one hell of a strategic position had we stuck it out.

[bluelagoon]

Re: Afghanistan

Seems we'll always be after terrorists gangs no matter where they are. Seems it's not quite over yet. It's difficult not to mention religion when you have extremists with such radical Islamic beliefs. We should also clean up our own back yards, cause we even have terrorist groups in our own countries. Plus some of these groups call themselves Christian. Some of those shoulders were too young to pay for the price of war. Can't imagine how their parents feel. On the other hand we can't live with threats and having buildings bombed. Right now the whole world seems crazy and messed up.

[pastry]

Re: Afghanistan

" We should also clean up our own back yards, cause we even have terrorist groups in our own countries. Plus some of these groups call themselves Christian."

Spot on!!!!! I like your style, Mervin

[bluelagoon]

Re: Afghanistan

Shame that women's rights aren't equal and is still in the Americas' in places. Might look like Texas in a few years if laws keep going backwards there.

[tacks]

Re: Afghanistan

very good ED

[pastry]

Re: Afghanistan

Shame that women's rights aren't equal and is still in the Americas' in places. Might look like Texas in a few years if laws keep going backwards there.

Lessons Learned: should've trained only the women. They did more and had nothing short of motivation. The vast majority of men were cowards who portrayed bravado until shot at... hell, not even. I will say that there were a small amount of men that had kahunas. But we should've spent 20 years making a mostly female military & government. "Oh, but you can't expect to come into a country and expect to successfully mold them into a western civilization... we need to understand their culture and pivot from there..." -- ummmm... no. Arm & train women... because they had nothing to lose and were full of piss & vinegar.

We'll never know. ...and back to discus (trying to forget we threw away 20 years, brethren, comrades,... and again, not putting any political party on the spot... it was 20 years worth of politicians & General officers). Holy crap, Georgia
beat Clemson.

[dspeers]

Re: Afghanistan

Mervin, how much time have you actually spent in Texas?

[nah]

Re: Afghanistan

We have what is the military industrial complex. If there is no war all of the companies that make up the complex go out of business. That was the number one reason for Afghanistan. Profits from selling war machines and young people dying. The largest defense contractors are Boeing, Raytheon, Lockeed-Martin, Northrop-Grumman. No war, no weapons sales the the US government, no stockholders profits because business is down. So there has to be a war somewhere. The question is, what is next? Not, are we done? The South China Sea is next. We are shifting our energy to doing battle with China in the South China Sea. VP Harris recently returned from lengthy meetings with Vietnam. Why? Military bases? `

[bluelagoon]

Re: Afghanistan

Mervin, how much time have you actually spent in Texas?

Not a minute in Texas nor Afghanistan! But I watch the news everyday. You don't have to live somewhere to know what goes on any where these days. Actually, I also heard that they try to make it more difficult for their American citizens to vote instead of them trying to make it easier. I can't see how the law makers can justify such actions in their own heads to be honest.

[dspeers]

Re: Afghanistan

I would advise you to be less complacent about trusting the veracity of some of your news sources and much less judgmental in the absence of conclusive evidence about what your think is the backwardness of the state and the deficiencies of the lawmakers. You might also ask yourself why there is a net migration away from the bastions of "liberal" ideals, NY, CA, NJ, MD, etc. to such shoddy destinations such as TX and FL. You might also want to consider just how many individuals you have insulted who elected the officials you seem to be sure are incompetent. And yes maybe you would be better served living somewhere or at least doing a little more digging before jumping to what I consider erroneous and insulting conclusions.

[dspeers]

Re: Afghanistan

On reflection I am a little more annoyed than I originally realized. The laudable purpose of this particular thread is to reach out to veterans who may be struggling with recent US actions in Afghanistan given the number of both Americans and allies remaining in that country. I find your willingness to conflate that with an opportunity to point out your perceived deficiencies of certain Christian organizations and the state of TX deplorable. Given the issues of abandonment and the subjugation/murder of members of the Afghan civilian population I suggest you focus your attention on Canada's actions or lack thereof regarding Canadian citizens currently detained in Syria or ongoing violence in your Country toward indigenous females. Yes I am a Texan, we are frankly not interested in your opinion. Yes I am a veteran of 30 years and deployment to that region and yes I do feel betrayed by certain recent actions and yes when anyone, American or other decides to compare American shortcomings to fundamentalist Islamic Terrorist atrocities I get angry. Rethink your comments.

[jeep]

Re: Afghanistan

This is a homestead forum so it's designed to be a bit out of the traditional forum policies, but we've had requests to tone this down a bit. We would ask that everyone respect Elliot's request and try to avoid politial challenges or anger. Heaven knows there's far too much of that everywhere else these days

[captainandy]

Re: Afghanistan

Wonder what has brought Americans to the point of extreme rage?
Thru most of my like, national and international tragedies, wars etc were met with unity.
This rage is destroying our country. So sad.