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Journal - First Pair with fry
The parents are a Blue Turquoise and a Blue Turk/red Melon cross. I presume I will get a mostly Blue Turk looking fish. But only time will tell if I can be successful.
The pair spawned 4 times before they got it right. Currently, there are about 50 fry in the tank.
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-47f7-e880.jpg
Here is the pair day 1 free swimming on June 26.
The pair are housed in a 55 gallon tank divided by a hamburg mattenfilter. I removed most of the fish from the other side of the tank, aside from some least killie's. Those will get moved soon. I have a canister filter on the non-discus side and a sponge filter on either side of the divider also.
06.30.12 - day 5
Started feeding BBS and microworms in small portions once a day. Fry still will parents. Water changes every other day at 25-50%. Fry and wigglers in the tank.
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-46a0-3c7b.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-47d6-d108.jpg
TFCEC Member
Tropical Fish Club of Erie County
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07.02.12 - day 7
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-4862-565e.jpg
Fry don't seem to be eating the bbs yet. I still feed by squirting over the fry and parents 3x a day.
Tank Parameters
PH - 7.0-7.5
Temp - 78.6
NH3/NH4 - 0
TDS - 149
TFCEC Member
Tropical Fish Club of Erie County
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
That Mellon cross is different I am not sure if I like that or not but the sponge filters are growing their own hair that tank may need cleaning I am new around here and just learning don't listen to me.
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
are u breeding these just for experience or are u tryin to reverse line breed?non PB X PB=all PB babys
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Mostly just breeding for experience, and to turn in for BAP points at my fish club.
What's PB?
TFCEC Member
Tropical Fish Club of Erie County
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Hey Josh, how is Randy doing these days? He used to help out at our local fish auctions across the border here.
My favorite auctioneer hands down. Does he still have his store?
By the way PB - Pigeon Blood
...Ralph
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
just curious for the pts how many fry do u have to keep and how long ?
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
The cross will yield better results than the cross that the male came from. I can see two distinct types of fry, one type looks almost white in color. Be curious to see the offspring that are not pigeon blood, and any effects the red melon from the original cross have (if any). The pb based fry will most likely look like dad.
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Altum Nut
Hey Josh, how is Randy doing these days? He used to help out at our local fish auctions across the border here.
My favorite auctioneer hands down. Does he still have his store?
By the way PB - Pigeon Blood
...Ralph
Randy is doing well, still president of the club. Our yearly picnic is this month on the 29th. His store has been closed since I've known him (since 2009). I'll let him know one of his friends from the north said hi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cjr8420
just curious for the pts how many fry do u have to keep and how long ?
- Discus = Target Fish 20 Bonus Points, so a total of 40pts
- Six fry must be brought to a General Meeting for verification no sooner then two (2) months after free swimming.
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
You should get 50% turq types and 50% PB type. I realize you said that you are doing this for experience but I felt I needed to let you know that neither of the parents really look to be what I would call breeding quality. They appear healthy and you are taking care of them but they just are not the quality of discus that should be used to produce the next generation of discus. I am not trying to be harsh, I just thought you needed to know.
Good luck.
-john
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
John_Nicholson
You should get 50% turq types and 50% PB type. I realize you said that you are doing this for experience but I felt I needed to let you know that neither of the parents really look to be what I would call breeding quality. They appear healthy and you are taking care of them but they just are not the quality of discus that should be used to produce the next generation of discus. I am not trying to be harsh, I just thought you needed to know.
Good luck.
-john
I don't necessarily agree with you, as ugly people can have pretty and ugly offspring.
If this was absolutely the case, the movie Idiocracy will soon be a reality.
I do thank you for your opinion. :)
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joshvito
I don't necessarily agree with you, as ugly people can have pretty and ugly offspring.
If this was absolutely the case, the movie
Idiocracy will soon be a reality.
I do thank you for your opinion. :)
it already is..
well, at least where i use to teach.. lol
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joshvito
I don't necessarily agree with you, as ugly people can have pretty and ugly offspring.
If this was absolutely the case, the movie
Idiocracy will soon be a reality.
I do thank you for your opinion. :)
People breeding and fish breeding are kind of different. LOL
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
It would be like breeding 2 plow horses and getting a race horse...possible, but very, very unlikely.
-john
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
John_Nicholson
It would be like breeding 2 plow horses and getting a race horse...possible, but very, very unlikely.
-john
But more likely than a race horse, because instead of 1 offspring at a time, fish give you many multiples.
TFCEC Member
Tropical Fish Club of Erie County
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
I understand your argument but it still highly unlikely, but here is a thought. You raise out your spawn and bring the very, very best "race horse" that you raise to the next NADA show in 2014. That way we can compare it to other "race horses" and you can decide if it was a worth while venture.
Beside you would have a blast. NADA shows are out of this world.
-john
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07.06.12 - day 11
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-860c-e91d.jpg
Eating bbs 3x a day. The fry are definitely more exploratory and even picking at parents food.
TFCEC Member
Tropical Fish Club of Erie County
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
07.07.12 - day 12
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-8bea-c72a.jpg
Water parameters before a 50% WC
Ph - 7.0
Temp - 78.5
NH3/NH4 - 0
TDS - 103
GH/KH - 17.9 - 35.8 ppm
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Very cool Congrats, disregard the rude comments.
Your PBS will likely show strong peppering but can help to strengthen genes on the Turks. Watch the PBS and hang on to the cleanest of the bunch, you never know!
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
limige
Very cool Congrats, disregard the rude comments.
Your PBS will likely show strong peppering but can help to strengthen genes on the Turks. Watch the PBS and hang on to the cleanest of the bunch, you never know!
There is not a single rude comment in this post. The forum is here to provide information. Just because the information was not what he wanted does not make it rude.
-john
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
John_Nicholson
There is not a single rude comment in this post. The forum is here to provide information. Just because the information was not what he wanted does not make it rude.
-john
+1
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
It's all part of the discussion for learning. Thank you all for your feedback and creative critiques.
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Joshvito, I won't get in to all the politics... all I can say is that I'm fan of your experiment! My best pair wasn't based off two beautiful discus but instead based off a pair that were such awesome parents that they raised about 20 fry to just over a month old (until I had a dumb idea and did an overhaul of the filtration system which sucked them up... water's a lot cleaner now) in a community tank. And they were ugly & stunted... but damn were they my best pair.
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
My Current Grow-out Setup
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...3&d=1342616516
A shot of my grow out tank.
My growing fry are housed in a bare bottom, 55 gallon tank with a Poret foam divider placed at the half way point.
The reason for this is to keep the fry food items concentrated in a smaller area, while maintaining a larger volume of water for more stable tank conditions. The concentrated food volume makes feeding easier, and the fry are able to eat with less wasted food.
Each side of the tank has an air driven sponge filter. I believe they are Hydro-Sponge Pro IV Filters. I purposely let the sponges get "mucky" and only rinse them in waste tank water once a week, usually on Sundays. It is my belief that the filters provide infusorians and other micro-fauna for the developing discus to graze on in between feedings.
In addition to the three pieces of foam in the tank, I run an external canister filter with mostly mechanical and biological media on the opposite side of the fry. This filter is what I like to think of as my "Fall back" filter. If I choose to give the sponge filters a thorough cleaning, I am not worried about bacteria loss, because the canister filter will offset any loss. The canister also contains a 100g Seachem Purigen bag.
Also of note in the photo, I keep easy, forgiving live plants in both sides of the tank. Mostly just Java Moss and Najas Grass, but Anubias are easy to care for also. There is also some driftwood on the non-fry side, mainly because it provides a place for the moss to attach. Plants help to keep the nitrate lower between WC, and provide places for micro-fauna to populate.
Most nights, after the last feeding, I have time for a water change. I remove as much water as I can. My limit is the size of my water holding container at the moment (33G trash can). Often times, I will remove more than what I have on hand for replacement, and the tank will not be "full." As long as my intake for the canister is below water level, I don't sweat the lack, and I just replace it with the next change.
I'll post a bit more about my daily routine/maintenance in a couple days.
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Day 24
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-b473-a335.jpg
Took a shot of fry while they were eating for the third time today. From the looks of the fish at the moment, I have at least two different patterns forming, and a possible third. This photo shows two. The third is close to the verticals bar coloration, without the dark line through its eye.
TFCEC Member
Tropical Fish Club of Erie County
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Very cool
Interesting thought on the divided tank. I wonder how well the water mixes between the two sides.
never heard of that kind of foam, where did you find it? What's it typically used for?
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Joshvito I commend you for taking the leap into the breeding end of this hobby. As has been mentioned and isnt worth argueing over, the parents are not the best possible picks for the greatest possible outcome. However at the very least you can learn and take away so much from this experience. One of the things I would hope you take away is the cost and effort of raising fry, I believe for that fact alone a majority of us will be VERY picky about the fish that we choose to spawn. Because if the effort is going to be put in we want to maximize the outcome and the improvement of this hobby. Please my friend do not take this as rude whatsoever. I commend you because no matter what it takes GREAT effort to raise discus fry, and that is a huge success in and of itself. That is an amazing accomplishment. I only hope and intend to push you towards taking this hobby further with each successful spawn. Now you know you can do it, I hope you intend to continue in your adventure and with beautiful parents, which any discus keeper generally aspires to have and create.
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
limige
Very cool
Interesting thought on the divided tank. I wonder how well the water mixes between the two sides.
never heard of that kind of foam, where did you find it? What's it typically used for?
The foam is pretty porous. I have tested the parameters separately on both sides, and I get the same readings twenty minutes after a water change.
Poret foam is from Germany, I think.? It is what is used in Hamburg Mattenfilters.
The only place I know to purchase the foam in the US is at Swiss Tropicals.
Make sure to take a look at his fish room while you are there, it's pretty cool.
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DiscusDrew
Joshvito I commend you for taking the leap into the breeding end of this hobby. As has been mentioned and isnt worth argueing over, the parents are not the best possible picks for the greatest possible outcome. However at the very least you can learn and take away so much from this experience. One of the things I would hope you take away is the cost and effort of raising fry, I believe for that fact alone a majority of us will be VERY picky about the fish that we choose to spawn. Because if the effort is going to be put in we want to maximize the outcome and the improvement of this hobby. Please my friend do not take this as rude whatsoever. I commend you because no matter what it takes GREAT effort to raise discus fry, and that is a huge success in and of itself. That is an amazing accomplishment. I only hope and intend to push you towards taking this hobby further with each successful spawn. Now you know you can do it, I hope you intend to continue in your adventure and with beautiful parents, which any discus keeper generally aspires to have and create.
You make a few very good points, for now, I am just enjoying the ride.
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
sounds like a fun ride enjoy
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
I think the poret idea is wonderful
I may incorporate that at some point for concentrating brine shrimp feedings
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Harry Marsh
I think the poret idea is wonderful
I may incorporate that at some point for concentrating brine shrimp feedings
Works really well, the fry are able to snatch up their daily feeding of fry in minutes with very little getting grabbed by the filter.
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
My Daily Feeding/Maintenance Schedule from Day 5 to present
To give readers a better understanding of what has been working for me to this point in time, here is a summary of my daily schedule. The only thing that I have changed since Day 5, is the amount of food I was feeding. When the parents were in the tank, I fed a bit less, as the fry seemed less interested in food, and were feeding from the parents.
7:00 AM
- Let yesterdays Brine Shrimp Settle
- Mix up new Brine Shrimp
- Feed Fry Crumbled Eathworm flake
- Feed other fish/tanks too
- Feed Baby Brine Shrimp
- Plug in aerator and heater for replacement water
Every morning, I find 15 minutes to head down into the fish room to feed the fish. Some days, I am more pressed for time than others, but I always make sure the fry get fed before I head off to work.
6:00 PM
- Let yesterdays Brine Shrimp Settle
- Feed other fish/tanks too
- Feed Baby Brine Shrimp
First thing I do when I get home from work, is feed the fish again. Relax and watch to make sure everyone is eating and the tanks appear healthy and stable. Watching your fish each day, you can tell if something is wrong many times just by noticing a difference.
~10:30 PM
Last thing I do for the day before I head up to bed.
- Let yesterdays Brine Shrimp Settle
- Water Change - Remove 30 Gallons(Size of my holding tank) of water from fish tank on non-fry side**
- Turn pump on to add water back to non-fry side
- Feed the remainder of the Brine from yesterday (all BBS is fed between 24-40hrs of mixing)
- Feed frozen blood-worms or Mysis Shrimp or crumbled balanced flake (alternate)
- Empty BBS container and fill with fresh water and salt (I aerate this water overnight, so I can just add BS eggs/cysts in the AM)
** My water change is RO water with added Seachem Equilibrium to make it 70-90 TDS. While refilling with this water, I add 2L of lukewarm tap water with Seachem Prime. My TDS reads near 100 on most days. If I check it and it is below 70, I may top off with a bit more tap water, but the daily water changes usually keep the TDS in that 70-90 range. Sometimes if I get busy, I miss one water change a week.
I'll get some photos up later this week to show some growth.
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Re: Journal - First Pair with fry
Hmmm, I always let my fry go straight back to aged airated tap after they hatch, seems to work for me though Im not discrediting your approach. I just never want to even have to think about whether or not there was a mineral defficiency in the water. They love my hard water, they just dont love to hatch into it ;) Good job thus far, things seem to be going well.
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@DiscusDrew
I use RO at this point due to lack of holding containers. I like have RO on hand but lack a second container at the moment. I also only have one water source, so I need to unhook my RO unit in order to get tap water.
I will probably switch over soon, as I plan to move them to a continuous overflow system ASAP.
TFCEC Member
Tropical Fish Club of Erie County