New to discus-Have some questions

[bluecharm7]

I have been eying up discus for a while. I have had angelfish for about 4 years and got hooked to fish with the angels. I always wanted discus but have heard that they are very very difficult. So never explored more into them. I just got a new tank and moved my angels into that one and have a 65 gallon just sitting and decided to bite the bullet and get some discus.

And I did try to find this information before posting and read the beginners guide but wanted more detailed info, sorry if this has already been posted and please send me a link if the info is out there already.

1) How many discus can I have in the 65 gallon tank? It is already a community tank, with a cardinal tetras, and rummy nose about 15 fish. With a algae eater and some other bottom feeders. And its an established planted tank. I know I will have my work cut out for me. So with all this in mind how many discus can I have in there? Does the 1 fish per 10 gallons still hold true?

2) What should I be feeding them and what should I not be feeding them? I have a very large supply of food that I use for the angels. Most of the food is flakes but occasionally I will feed black worms as a treat. The angels thrive on the flakes so I never looked into getting a more diversified diet. I have different varieties of flakes so I do change up the flavors but it is still flakes.

3) Water changes- I have had some ups and downs with the angels when I first got into the aquarium hobby. But now I have it figured out and do 2x weekly water changes and that works very well for the angels. I do not siphon food after every feeding because of the bottom feeders, also I just don't have the time. I need to invest in a water pump to make this easier I just never looked into it. So the 2x a week works. Is this something that is a hard no, or can it be a little flexible? I do monitor my water and this is an established tank that is used to a larger bio-load, so I have never seen spike in ammonia or nitrite for a few years now luckily.

4) Lastly, which strains/size/breeder/importer is best? I do have darker substrate in the tank. Its substrate for the plants so that is not changing. I would love to have a red colored discus but know that Pigeon blood will pepper and darken with dark substrate. Is there types of strains that will pepper less even though there is pigeon in their background? You never really had to worry about this with angels so that why I have the dark substrate.
I know you will probably recommend the larger adult discus, which is fine, but I am terribly afraid of spending $100-$200 for a fish that I could kill while I learn about the nuances of discus. So I would like to try to buy cheaper ergo smaller fish for my first go around. Unless there are common varieties that are cheaper because they are very common and not in high demand so sell for less then the average price.

Thank you for reading this.

[Fisher126]

First off I will say I am very new to the Discus world and all information I will pass on is from hours and hours of reading this forum or from the very little I have experienced myself. So, take it for what it's worth! Trust, but verify as the Navy continuously tells us. (also I need more posts to be able to use all features of the forum)

1) The general consensus seems to be buy a minimum of 5. They like the company and from what I have gathered you can support that with your current setup and fish.

2) You could read the section about what to feed for days. Some sort of beef heart concoxion seems tobe the highest recommendation and there are numerous recipes (weekend cook to 5 star chef difficulties) available. It seems all would agree a diverse diet is most important. I myself have not dabbled into the beefheart recipes yet. This someone else's area of expertise. I use a rotation of blood worms and cobalt discus flakes; more to come soon.

3) I simply don't have the time to do 100% wcs daily. A lot seem to have elaborate systems to assist with wcs as I do not. I do a minimum of 50% twice per week and more if I have the time

[Fisher126]

Sorry this we site does not do well with my tablet or we could blame it on user error.

4) my pigeon bloods definitely do pepper when stress or from a dark background/substrate also. I don't have much experience with many strains but my blue torquoise don't pepper nearly as much due to their natural darker color. My LFS hand picks his discus from Hans' shop and all I know who buy Hans' Discus are happy and more often than not repeat customers. Plus the parameters he keeps in his tanks happen to be almost identical to what I get in my tap water. Most will recommend you buy more mature Discus for your fist go around do to their age, heartiness and stronger immune systems. When working with juvies bare bottom tanks, time intensive feeding schedules and high rates of water changes arehighly recommended.

I hope some of this will help or at least get you to check behind me. Enjoy your day!

[Elliots]

Buy adult discus, at leasst 4" preferably 5". 2X weekly water changes may be OK if you do 70 plus%. With adults 3X 50% is good. If you add plant food to your water replace what you take out. Buy a Python and use tap water and a dechlorinator. Aged tap might be better if you need to age it. I feed my Discus tetra flake and other tetra products. they are doing well. As for a Discus supplier, you do not say where you live. I reccommend any SD sponsor you can drive to even if it is 150 miles each way. It is OK to ship your Discus. Hans and Kenny get the most write ups, check who has the Discus strains you want to buy. Buu all your Discus at once from one supplier. Get rid of the dark substrate before you buy your Discus.

[bluecharm7]

I am located in Pa. So Hans Discus would be the closest to me I think. I am not afraid of getting fish shipped I had angels shipped to my house before.

[OC Discus]

Welcome to SD. You will find a great deal of helpful information here. Most keep bare bottom tanks or just sand without plants and are passionate about it. Others have been keeping discus in planted tanks for some time, and will be helpful to you.

My first concern would be cross contamination of parasites and disease from the existing fish. Most discus are raised in pristine conditions and succumb to diseases commonly carried by tetras and plecos. So finding a way to sterilize the tank and treat the existing fish for common parasites before adding the discus is worth considering. Better still, keep the angels with the other fish in the planted tank and start the discus in their own clean, sterilized tank.

Discus are only difficult because of their need for pristine clean water and disease free environment. Most fish people are used to changing water once or twice a month, whereas with young discus it is every day or two to grow them out properly. So a simplified water change system would be my second concern/recommendation. After trying various things, I currently vacuum and drain my tank using a siphon wand attached to a 6 foot hose with an on/off valve at both ends and 30 foot of hose after the second valve extends into the yard. I open the first valve on the end and close the second valve and fill the six foot hose with water. Place the end of the wand into the tank and open the valve to begin siphon. Vacuum one side of the tank and drain down the water to about 50%, then close the 1st valve near the wand to hold a siphon (it is hard to get started again on 1/2 tank of water. Keep the tip of the wand up to hold the siphon and insert it on the other side. Open the valve and finish the vac leaving only about 10% of the water in the tank. Since I don't change it daily, I want to do a thorough cleaning each time.

To refill, I have a 50 gallon tub from Walmart that fits into my bathtub. I add 1/2 tsp of safe and fill the tub with warm water (a little warmer than the tank). I then use a 1" id hose attached to a submersible pump to fill the tank back up. Drop the pump into the tub, run the hose to the tank, clamp it on the side, and start the water running. It refills in about 5 minutes or less.

1) How many discus can I have in the 65 gallon tank?

The ten gallon per discus rule applies in a non planted tank without other fish. I've seen the guys with planted tanks recommend half that load- 20 gallons per discus- because of water quality issues from the plants. In that case, 65 gallons would not be sufficient for the minimum number of discus, which is 5. It would be great for six discus if not planted. Others with plant experience can comment here- Pastry, Paul, and Coree.

2) What should I be feeding them and what should I not be feeding them?

A diet that includes high protein, added vitamins a, b, c, d, e, and some green daily (spirulina). Feeding regimen depends on age and size of fish.

3) Water changes- I won't comment on water changes in planted tanks because I don't have one. Twice weekly might work in a non planted tank if a) the fish are adult/sub adult, b) You have double to triple filtration recommended for the tank, 3) keep check on your parameters.

4) Lastly, which strains/size/breeder/importer is best? I do have darker substrate in the tank. Its substrate for the plants so that is not changing. I would love to have a red colored discus but know that Pigeon blood will pepper and darken with dark substrate. Is there types of strains that will pepper less even though there is pigeon in their background? You never really had to worry about this with angels so that why I have the dark substrate.

There are some reds that are not pigeon blood- Hans sells a red snakeskin that I've seen look awesome. Kenny sells albino golden melon sometimes that have no pepper. Kenny also sells san Mereh that is not pigeon based. Other fish that don't pepper include blue diamond, snow white, any albino, and I don't think turks, leopards, and snakeskins pepper.

I know you will probably recommend the larger adult discus, which is fine, but I am terribly afraid of spending $100-$200 for a fish that I could kill while I learn about the nuances of discus. So I would like to try to buy cheaper ergo smaller fish for my first go around. Unless there are common varieties that are cheaper because they are very common and not in high demand so sell for less then the average price.

Anything below 4" and you will need to do more frequent water changes to grow them out properly. Some 4" fish are less than $100. Look at Kenny's current stock list in his sponsor thread, and also Hans' website. You can also look at what other sd members have for sale.

[bluecharm7]

I do have double filtration in the tank I have 2 aqua clears for a 70 gallon tank will this help at all?

[discuspaul]

bluecharm - I'm sure that in the back of your mind, you're already somewhat aware that you're not giving yourself the best chances for success (starting out with discus) by wanting to put a 'compatible' group of 5 or 6 discus into an established, but planted 65 gal tank with 15 other tank-mates, a dark substrate, & doing only a couple of modest water changes a week.
It's somewhat unfortunate you've already moved the Angels to the new tank you've obtained, expecting to house discus properly in the planted tank.

What size is the new tank ? If it's around 65 gals or larger, why don't you consider putting the Angels back into the 65 gal, and starting fresh with re-preparing & setting up the new tank, just for a group of 5 or 6 reasonably-sized near adult discus of your choice ?.
That way you can set up optimal conditions for the discus from the get-go, bare-bottom, or with a light sand substrate, and with minimal, if any, plants and DW décor; and feed whatever you like to promote health & continued good growth, including beef heart and other protein-laden foods.

[OC Discus]

Not sure about the aqua clears. If the tank is 70g I would use filtration for at least double that, especially if not doing daily wc. If you do daily wc the filtration is not as important.


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[bluecharm7]

Thank you for the input but I have made up my mind to put them in this tank. So I am trying to figure out how to make it work before I buy the fish. I really want a show tank and not a bare bottom plain tank. It just not what I want. I am willing to put the discus in the new tank but it will be planted either way and will be a community tank eventually.

I see lots of photos of discus in community tanks with lot, and lots of plants, all of those fish look great. That is what I want. I am just trying to determine what is involved before I commit. I also don't understand how discus don't die in the wild if they are as delicate about tank mates and plants. I thought most rivers have varieties of fish and plants.

If it means I change the water more than 2x a week or I buy bigger, older fish, then that is fine. I am just trying to figure out the information before I buy and not after I have 10 fish that are sick and don't know why. I am trying to learn before I buy. But I also want it the way I want it or I won't buy them at all. And I know its possible unless all the other tanks are cgi?

[bluecharm7]

Okay thanks, I can buy more filters but I can do more water changes too, probably every other day. Will that work?

[JmDiscuss]

OC has a lot of good points.. You really need to do the water changes that is all I can say.

[discuspaul]

Thank you for the input but I have made up my mind to put them in this tank. So I am trying to figure out how to make it work before I buy the fish. I really want a show tank and not a bare bottom plain tank. It just not what I want. I am willing to put the discus in the new tank but it will be planted either way and will be a community tank eventually.

I see lots of photos of discus in community tanks with lot, and lots of plants, all of those fish look great. That is what I want. I am just trying to determine what is involved before I commit. I also don't understand how discus don't die in the wild if they are as delicate about tank mates and plants. I thought most rivers have varieties of fish and plants.

If it means I change the water more than 2x a week or I buy bigger, older fish, then that is fine. I am just trying to figure out the information before I buy and not after I have 10 fish that are sick and don't know why. I am trying to learn before I buy. But I also want it the way I want it or I won't buy them at all. And I know its possible unless all the other tanks are cgi?

Ok, you've made up your mind, and that's just fine.

But why run the risk of exposing your new expensive discus to potential cross-contamination in an already established tank that has housed Angels and still has other varieties of fish in it, not to mention the harmful pathogens that the tank's substrate possibly already harbours.

You'd still be better off, imo, by re-homing the Angels back to the established tank, and re-starting the new tank fresh, (assuming it's large enough for 5-6 discus), planting it the way you want, with the substrate you want, and thus starting off on a much better footing to keep your new discus as healthy as possible.
Think about it.

[100fuegos]

1. Someone comes asking for for help and ideas for his / her new discus tank when already made their mind.
2. No matter how much good advise is given they will refuse it because their already have made their mind.
3. They insist to carry on with it refusing all the good advise given.
4. In a month time they will open a thread in the sickness section and after around four to six months they will not come back to the forum. They will tell everyone how their expensive fish died for no reason and that discus are extremely difficult and delicate fish.


People are already tired of giving you good advise. It is your choice to follow it or carry on with your ideas.



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[OC Discus]

The simple answer to the "why?" Question is IMMUNITY. If you visit South America you will be advised not to drink the water. Why? There are pathogens in the water you have never been exposed to that will make you sick. The local people have immunity because of life long exposure.

The fish in your tank have pathogens your discus have never been exposed to that will make them sick. Your other fish have immunity because they were raised with those pathogens. They don't appear sick, but they carry the diseases.

It's a free country and it's your money. We re just trying to save you some of that money and trouble along the way.


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