New to Discus and Forum. My answers to the questionnaire

[stalefish83]

1) Please Introduce your self and tell us what your experience is with fishkeeping, give us as much information as possible as to how long in the hobby, what you have kept in the past and what you currently are working with.

My Name is Jason, and I’ve been keeping fish for about 6 years. I started ignorantly with 3 common goldfish in a 3 gallon tank. Lost two of them to jumping out, and quickly realized after a little research that goldies need a lot more room. I upgraded the single goldfish to a 40g, got another goldie, and upgraded them again to their current 90 gallon tank. I still have my original common goldfish at about 7”.

I’ve kept khuli loaches, dwarf gouramis, plecos, cories, a pea puffer, and I recently had a 75 gallon SA/CA cichlid tank with a Firemouth, Honduran Red Point, Rainbow cichlids (x6) and a Blue Acara. For filtration I’ve used HOB filters (AC110 is my favorite HOB) canister filters, and a sump.

2) If you have no previous experience with keeping discus, have you done any research to properly prepare yourself, e.g. have you read any Stickies in this section of SimplyDiscus, or other material?

I have no previous experience with Discus, but have done a lot of research on this forum and others, having read stickies and various threads, and online articles on keeping discus.

3) Describe your tank, its size and dimensions, breeding or display. Include how long it has been setup or if it is still being cycled.

This will be a display tank. It is a standard 75 gallon measuring 48” x 18”. The tank is fully cycled, the filters (2 aquatop cf 300s and 1 fluval xp3) have been running for years

4) Describe the décor for the tank; type of substrate or bare bottom (BB), whether the tank will be planted or a biotope.

Pool filter sand substrate, bogwood, large smooth river rocks and planted with anubias (rooted in the bogwood)

5) Describe your water changes planned or practiced, percentage and how often. Include if you age your water and use of tap/RO or mix.

10 gallons changed every day from the tap. One larger water change a week of about 50% with full wipe-down of surfaces. Water is not aged. pH is 7.4 out of the tap, 7.2 if aged, and the tank pH is 7.0.

6) Describe the type of filtration planned/used for the tank; sponge, HOB and/or sump. Also include the other equipment you are, or will be, using in your tank, e.g. heater, lighting, etc.

2 aquatop cf 300s and 1 fluval xp3 canister filter (3 canisters total), standard aquarium light (48in “good for plant growth” light) and a 22in light. Heater keeps tank at a steady 84*

7) If the tank is already setup and running, include the water parameters;

- temp __84___

- tank ph _7.0____

- Ph of the water straight out of your tap _7.4____

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading _0___

- nitrate reading __5__

- well water _N___

- municipal water __Y__


8) Describe your current or planned stocking levels; number/size of discus and number/type of dither fish. Where did you get your discus from or do you have a proposed source for getting your discus?

I have completely re-done my cichlid tank, got rid of all that stock, and am starting over with discus in that tank. I also have a single wild type angel fish (5”), and a senegul bichir (3.5”) with the discus. I have 3 discus currently ranging from 3” to 4” (TL). I’ve had the discus since May 17th and will be driving back to the Wet Spot in Portland (where I got these) next Saturday to get 3 more to bring the total to 6. The other two fish are new as well, I’ve had them for about 3 weeks. I stupidly did not quarantine any of them, so I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for the best!

9) Describe your planned or existing feeding regimen. Include what and how often you are feeding on a daily basis.

3 to 4 feedings a day. Once in the morning, “New Era” cichlid pellets or Omega One super veggie flakes. When I get home from work I feed them frozen beef heart (then do the water change) then feed them again in a couple hours, frozen blood worms, and sometimes again before I go to bed frozen krill or frozen brine shrimp.

10) What are your goals in this hobby? For example are you looking to keep discus in a planted community tank, or do you hope to become a hobby breeder of Discus? Do you want to raise Discus with the hopes of competing in shows?

I want to have a stunning tank for my friends and family to enjoy and provide the best home possible for these amazing fish!

Cheers

[stalefish83]

...any comments, questions and suggestions are welcome

[DiscusRob]

ok, I'm gonna bite, did you clean everything very, very, very well, did you do any research as in the stickies available for discus beginners, and yes, I'm still reading them. Are you aware of the requirements of keeping discus, again the "stickies". And number 5 of your original post is not enough of a water change routine. JMHO

[stalefish83]

Thanks for the reply. I admit that I have not read through all of the stickies on this site for beginners, though I have read through some of them. I’ve also posted queries on other fish forums and have gotten all positive feedback on my processes and stock (other than upping the number to 6, which I will be doing).

I wanted to join this site because I had heard from other places (like monsterfishkeepers) that this site is quite a bit more intense and a little less forgiving to newcomers. I figured I could benefit from the sort of “tough love” it sounded like would be available here.

Reading that a lot of people here choose to do 100% water changes every day sure clued me in to the intensity that I could expect. To be honest, I do not have the time or resources to invest in such an intense routine, but I am starting to investigate ways to more efficiently change water involving pumps and maybe a python. As of now it takes me about 20 minutes to do about a 15% water change which involves syphoning into a 5 gallon bucket (filling it up twice) and running tap water into gallon jugs (being sure temps are as close as possible) and hauling them back and forth from the sink to the tank. 20 minutes is nothing, enjoyable even, and I could easily bump that if needed. I just have to be reasonable on the type of daily commitment I can make. An hour a day isn’t likely to happen. Hopefully a more efficient method will allow for greater water changes.

Before purchasing the discus I had conferred with other discus experts on other forums and got consistent advise stating that as long as nitrates stay below 10, and pH stays consistent, that I’d be OK with my current water change schedule. Just keep checking it. Is this not the case?

I’ve been testing the water consistently and since I got the discus and started changing more water my nitrates have gone down from 10 to 5. This is compared to when I had the CA/SA cichlids and did a water change once a week. If I see it go up I will certainly increase the volume of my water changes.

I did not clean everything before introducing the discus, except for the substrate (which was new, and rinsed thoroughly)… and I really should have. I will be sure to give all the rocks, bogwood, plants, and filters a good clean before I introduce the 3 extra I will be getting in a week and a half. Thanks for the advise there!

I also read on here that when they are young it’s not good to have too much décor, so food and debris doesn’t get lost and start to foul the water. I will be removing all the rocks, and most of the bogwood, leaving only the bogwood with plants and maybe a rock or two, cuz the fish like them (and so do I!) to make getting to uneaten food and waste easier, until they get bigger.

Thanks again for “biting” on my post. Sorry this is so long.

[pogyken]

stalefish83,

Welcome to SD! I am also very new to keeping discus, and like you I did the 5 gallon bucket thing at first. I cannot begin to tell you how much a python has improved my experience. My fish love the larger and more frequent water changes almost as much as my back loves not hauling buckets. Get a python or equivalent (or DIY yourself one), I swear by both of mine and will likely buy a 3rd for the wife's community tank. They definitely improved my quality of life as well as the fish ��

Ken

[stalefish83]

Thank you for the kind welcome, Ken!

I don't mind the bucket system for taking water out, I haul that water out to my garden. but filling and dumping 15 gallon jugs in the tank is getting old! (I'm officially upping my daily changes to 15 gallons instead of 10) Even if I just got the python (or a DIY, I like that idea) to run from my sink to the tank just for re-fills, that would save a lot of time. Once I get that squared away I'll up the daily's again.

Cheers

[stalefish83]

...I also read that someone on here wipes down with a paper towel so the stuff getting wiped doesn't just free-float in the water but gets stuck in the towel. I really like that idea and am adding that to my daily routine as well. Thanks to whomever that is

[Larry Bugg]

Your routine might be ok if you were keeping adult discus but you have juvies that are still growing. Checking just nitrates will not tell you all that you need to know. There are dissolved organic compounds in the water that come from left over food and waste from the fish. These docs are a large contributing factor to inhibiting growth in discus. The large water changes we do on our juvie discus tanks are in large part to remove these docs from the water. A good filter does not remove them all. Without the water changes we find that juvie discus do not grow at a normal rate and quite often become sick and or stunted. Keeping in mind your tank size and stocking levels, I would be doing 40% to 50% daily water changes.

You can always find other "experts" on other sites that will tell you we take it to an extreme but I'm willing to bet that you will find few that can show you Discus grown out using their methods that will compare with what we can show you here. Many, many try to grow out discus with reduced water changes and most you never hear from again because they ultimately failed. If they do show you the results it is often a 4" to 5" adult that doesn't look so hot compared to what a normal adult looks like.

[DiscusRob]

Thanks Larry, couldn't have said it better, one day I'm gonna make it back up to atlanta and take you to hooters

[stalefish83]

Greatly appreciate the feedback, Larry. Thanks! This is why i wanted to join this community. Good motivation to do things right, not just whats passable. My goal is to do more than keep these beautiful fish alive. I want to see them grow to their potential and thrive. Changing 30 or 40 gallons a day, once im not manually pouring 30 individual gallons of water into the tank, should be perfectly feasible. I'll need to get on that hose to hook up to my sink sooner rather than later. Also need to get sponges to pre-filter my canister intakes.

[stalefish83]

Reading through this thread:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ed-with-Discus
it states "If raising juvies, your ideal routine would be daily wc’s of between at least 25%, to 50% or more." Of course it's always better to shoot for more than the minimum, and I understand that BB is better to ensure that all waste and uneaten food is picked up (even though this portion of the page doesn't reference what type of set-up this routine is ideal for), but it also states later in the thread how plants help with water quality. Of course plants can't do anything about removing waste, but my small grain sand seems to do a good job of keeping everything at the surface for easy removal with my siphon.

I'm wondering if bringing the water changes to 15 gallons will be enough for a short time while I figure out the sink-to-hose technique. 15 gallons is 20% of 75 gallons, then factoring displacement from sand and decor should put me at, or at least very near the minimum 25%...

or maybe I should just make it 20g a day and haul four buckets to my garden instead of 3. I'm sure my tomatoes and peppers would appreciate it even if my lower back doesn't.

[pogyken]

I run my python out to a rain barrel that then feeds a drip irrigation system in the garden. Fish pee water (as the wife calls it) is being praised as a miracle fertilizer amongst my family

[stalefish83]

Heck yea, the plants love it!! So I'll be doing 20 gallon changes. That brings the water level down to just above the highest hole in one of my canister's intake tubes, so that's where it won't mess up the flow.

[LizStreithorst]

You'll be fine with 20 gallons a day. Discus adore fresh clean water so if you do a larger WC once a week they will appreciate it. You are using Prime or something similar, right? If I were you I would dump the python because it wastes so much water and look into buying a Mag Drive or similar pump to siphon into your 5 gallon buckets.

The pH swing between your straight tap and aged tap of .2 should not bother the Discus. I have a .4 swing so I have to age (the fish told me). Just keep a close eye. The fish will tell you if you need to change something.

The Wet Spot has an excellent reputation. I met them at the last NADA. Good folks. Ask them if all their fish come from the same supplier and if his name is Hans? If so, and if they keep their Discus on a separate system you should be OK without QT. Otherwise I'd suggest you quarantine and introduce a sacrificial lamb before putting the new fish in the tank.

[stalefish83]

Thanks for the reply, Liz! I'll be making the hour-45 drive next week back to WS so I'll ask them who they're supplier is. Their row of discus is quite impressive. It's an entire aisle (and a long one at that), dedicated, so I'm guessing they are on their own system.

I do have an old pump that I used for a sump I've decommissioned, so I could probably just use that to pump the water up into my tank from the 5 gallon buckets. How does a python waste water? Maybe I don't know enough about that process. I did find an attachment that hooks up to a siphon hose, and screws into a nossle, I haven't seen if it fits on my sink, but I would assume it does. If so, then all I need is a long enough hose and I can go right from the sink to the tank, at which point I would just add my Prime directly to the tank. Assuming I check that temps match, would this work?