Kordon Rid Ich Plus and bacteria bloom?

[Jack L]

have any of you ever have bacteria blooms clouding up the tank when using this?

[Eddie]

Of course. It's formalin/malachite green. It will certainly kill off some beneficial nitrifying bacteria.

[Jack L]

but the tank went super cloudy on me when i used it, like a bacteria bloom, not a kill off?

[Eddie]

but the tank went super cloudy on me when i used it, like a bacteria bloom, not a kill off?

Like immediately? Might be a bad bottle.

[jmf3460]

Jack, not having enough nitrifying bacteria (either due to a kill off, or over cleaning, or adding too many fish at once) is what causes a bacterial bloom. Any medication that could kill your beneficial bacterial will likely cause a bacterial bloom.

[pitdogg2]

OK let me play devils advocate here......How could you get a BLOOM and KILL at the same time????? yes that will kill off bio so we agree there but you can't get both at the same time...

[jmf3460]

am I crazy here? I thought it was common knowledge that a bacterial bloom was caused by not having enough nitrifying bacteria. when you kill off a lot of your beneficial bacteria and do not lower your bioload the result is a bacterial bloom. the bloom is the bacteria's attempt to suddenly try to regenerate itself to absorb/convert the ammonia/nitrites...

[pitdogg2]

am I crazy here? I thought it was common knowledge that a bacterial bloom was caused by not having enough nitrifying bacteria.

yes we are in agreement except when you are dumping in stuff that kills I don't see how the bacteria can also try to regenerate at the same time, UNTIL you stop treatment. During treatment I'd expect this to BE the DEAD bacteria in the water column further complicating the water quality.

when you kill off a lot of your beneficial bacteria and do not lower your bioload the result is a bacterial bloom. the bloom is the bacteria's attempt to suddenly try to regenerate itself to absorb/convert the ammonia/nitrites...

correct AFTER treatment I'd expect this also

not trying to argue but I just don't see BOTH dying and thriving (Regenerating) at the same time.

[jmf3460]

pitdogg2 sounds to me like you are overcomplicating it, he is using medication that is known to kill bb, he will get a bloom as a result simple as that.

Jack, you have had several threads about this "Ich." To me, you should be over it by now, ich is not a hard to treat disease. Water changes with high temps should kill it alone, plus healthy fish are normally able to fight it off. Also your fish shouldn't be getting ich at all in a tank with the temperatures discus need, what temp is your tank?

[Eddie]

It will impact nitrifying bacteria if it's overdosed. Generally there won't be a huge impact on a well established tank.

[jmf3460]

It will impact nitrifying bacteria if it's overdosed. Generally there won't be a huge impact on a well established tank.

agreed, and from my experience with kordon rid ich, there aint enough of the medicine in the entire bottle to kill any bb. A bad product IME. but that was several years ago before I came to the realization of the importance in water changes and got ich from time to time.

[Jack L]

Like immediately? Might be a bad bottle.

no, not immediately, as the days of treatment went by, the amount of cloudiness got worse. at first the water got a smell like the nice earthy filter smell, then it did't smell nice and earthy anymore...sort of stinky.

the filter sock and floss plugged up in a couple days instead of couple weeks

if it was bad...well....it doesn't cloud the quarantine tank.

i have finished the treatments and the situation is reversing.

i never detected any issues with ph, amonnia, nitrite or nitrate, fish didn't care either.
i assume the gills were riddled with ich before treatment they were puffing at 150 breaths/min, and now are down to 60-80

to be sure ich is gone, i guess i would have to water temp stress them again, but that seems like bad idea. however, it was an accidental water temp stress was what tipped me off ich wasn't gone.

[Jack L]

Jack, not having enough nitrifying bacteria (either due to a kill off, or over cleaning, or adding too many fish at once) is what causes a bacterial bloom. Any medication that could kill your beneficial bacterial will likely cause a bacterial bloom.

product "claims" safe for biological filtration.

fyi: i have enough surface area i my sump for 20 tanks, but based on research, i'm planning to slowly phasing out all the biological filtration in sump and see if plants pick up the pace and water stays good(or better based on some studies)

[Jack L]

pitdogg2 sounds to me like you are overcomplicating it, he is using medication that is known to kill bb, he will get a bloom as a result simple as that.

Jack, you have had several threads about this "Ich." To me, you should be over it by now, ich is not a hard to treat disease. Water changes with high temps should kill it alone, plus healthy fish are normally able to fight it off. Also your fish shouldn't be getting ich at all in a tank with the temperatures discus need, what temp is your tank?

based on many hours of reading, not just forum lore, but university studies, state fisheries and things of that nature. i have a better understanding of ich now than i did.

my discus were "fighting it off" and living with it....but they can't "kill" it. as long as one of the tomites finds a host, it continues. and in a closed system, apparently finding host is easy. it lives unseen with no white spots..on and on in gills, that is what i believe was happening in my tank. i base that on breating count, flashing, but no white spot.

i agree that heat can do it, old papers claim that 86 is hot enough, new info claims there is heat resistant, which i thought was bogus. but i know (unless my probes are wrong all four of them) i was running over 86. i ran at 89-90 for more than recommended time. my heater wasn't strong enough to raise it as high as others recommended.

i hope i have all the ich killed now, but time will tell.

to answer you question, my temp runs about 85. when it dropped to 78 the next day (or maybe it was couple days) anyway...ich production picked back up, 1/2 of them were spotted, and then spots went away w/in 3 days running at 85. but they were still puffing, that is why i finally decided to use meds.

as i've said in other threads, Ds seem tougher to me than normal community fish, they seem to live with ich while others drop like flies with it.


on this note of ich. my local petco, those ich ridden fish...i lose about 50% of them. i found another store(not corp owned) these fish are still in qtanks, but NOT ONE of them as shown any issue.

[Jack L]

agreed, and from my experience with kordon rid ich, there aint enough of the medicine in the entire bottle to kill any bb. A bad product IME. but that was several years ago before I came to the realization of the importance in water changes and got ich from time to time.

i didn't see ammonia or nitrite so i took that to mean my bacteria colony was unharmed.

i was just confused by the cloudiness it caused.

lots of water changes and siphoning off bottom is common rec when dealing with ich, even with meds. but i don't see how that helps with the parasites on the fish that are microscopic though.


if you don't have ich in the tank, and don't introduce new carries that could have ich, then one should NEVER get ich, no matter ones tank husbandry. its a parasite.