PH curiosity question for discus that the internet does not answer

[Raul-7]

Raul sorry.. but the values I posted are for my water storage barrels and empty tanks. The tds in these are the same as my tap. Except for one tank in my house all my tanks are bare bottom..no substrate or driftwood and get daily to every other day water changes. . I've lived here a long time .. I know my water real well by now.

Im glad you recognize this.... It is a cornerstone in good duscus husbandry. Thank you.

Al

How high is your dGH? Because with a dKH of 1, I'd except the TDS to be much lower unless the dGH was really high.

[brewmaster15]

Raul,
Im on a well here in trap rock country.. Its been. Ages since I measured any of that . It is not important to me here on a day to day basis. I will try and dig them up..


In your previous posts on need for soft low tds water for these fish.. I have a question. When you get discus and put them in that water will you breed them? and if so.. how will you raise the fry? Same water?

[Raul-7]

Raul,
Im on a well here in trap rock country.. Its been. Ages since I measured any of that . It is not important to me here on a day to day basis. I will try and dig them up..


In your previous posts on need for soft low tds water for these fish.. I have a question. When you get discus and put them in that water will you breed them? and if so.. how will you raise the fry? Same water?

No necessarily for breeding, but I firmly believe breeding is an indication of health and vitality. But if I were to breed it would be in the same water.

[brewmaster15]

No necessarily for breeding, but I firmly believe breeding is an indication of health and vitality. But if I were to breed it would be in the same water.

Should that happen, we should probably talk then about the unique challenges raising Discus fry in soft water pose.

Are you planning on getting Discus soon Raul? I hope that you will start a journal thread here when you do.

al

[Raul-7]

Should that happen, we should probably talk then about the unique challenges raising Discus fry in soft water pose.

Are you planning on getting Discus soon Raul? I hope that you will start a journal thread here when you do.

al

But isn't the hatchrate higher in soft water compared to hard?

I hope so - eyeing either Altum Carnation or Giant Floral - or maybe Deep Reflection. Too many good choices.

[brewmaster15]

The hatchrate is better usually in soft water.. but the problems are the growth and development of a batch of discus fry raised in a tank of soft water is challenging to balance. It goes hand in hand with these types of tank usually also are substrate tanks or planted in some way. It all comes together to make it very hard to raise discus fry in that water.. most people that keep their discus pairs in that soft low TDS water to breed... switch the fry to tap water or harder water to grow,

al

[brewmaster15]

I posted this in another thread on pH.. but I thought I would post here as well.
Water used at the former Stendker Discus hatchery

Screenshot_20230921_215614.jpg

Al

[Raul-7]

I posted this in another thread on pH.. but I thought I would post here as well.
Water used at the former Stendker Discus hatchery

Al

That is golden information - thank you for that.

I wish there was rep function on this forum.

[Vanman]

Please tell us about " the unique challenges raising Discus fry in soft water pose".

I raised a lot of Discus thirty years ago in very soft acidic water because that is what I had. About 20 ppm TDS, not sure about the PH because I rarely if ever checked it. The well I have now is a few hundred feet from the one I had 30 years ago. It is about 40 ppm TDS. I will check the PH next week when I get home.

I have a calcite tank now that I run my water through before it goes into the water heater, long story. I have tapped in between the calcite tank and the water heater to get water for my tanks, at least for now. When I get a large ageing tank I am going to use straight well water, no calcite filter. I hope to raise a lot more Discus when the ones I have now mature.

[brewmaster15]

Please tell us about " the unique challenges raising Discus fry in soft water pose".

I raised a lot of Discus thirty years ago in very soft acidic water because that is what I had. About 20 ppm TDS, not sure about the PH because I rarely if ever checked it. The well I have now is a few hundred feet from the one I had 30 years ago. It is about 40 ppm TDS. I will check the PH next week when I get home.

I have a calcite tank now that I run my water through before it goes into the water heater, long story. I have tapped in between the calcite tank and the water heater to get water for my tanks, at least for now. When I get a large ageing tank I am going to use straight well water, no calcite filter. I hope to raise a lot more Discus when the ones I have now mature.

Gary I dont know anyone with water as low in TDS as you had/have. Its not common. Its hard for me to really comment having not seen the fry you were raising and how fast or well they developed in your water. 30 Yrs ago was a much different time than today...we know more now than then. Im looking forward to when your fish are old enough to breed for you and hopefully you will document their growth in a tank journal.

What I was referring to by " unique challenges" has to do wth growth and development.. in soft acidic water its hard to get good growth and development in tank raised fish. Multiple high protein feedings require a balance of minerals. Its hard to maintain that in super soft water. In wild fry that develop in their natural habitat the growth rate and diet is much different.

Many people have found that fry grow better and faster in hard water. In soft acidic water defects can happen when things are not balanced.. short gill plates, dorsal spine defects, floppy fins, poor growth and poor shape.


I was also refering to how many people that try to keep their discus in soft acidic water have tanks set up as biotopes. Raising fry in a biotope is a very hard thing to do. They are not the kind of tanks that people usually do daily huge water changes in. Fry will not develop well in tanks like that ..its too hard to give the care they need in terms of food and clean water.

Its also not easy to maintain pH in soft acid water. if there is low kH in the tank the pHdoes drop fast.. buffer drops, and pH crashes. Hobbyists making RO water may not watch for those crashing pH levels.. raising fry in that tank makes it even harder. Frequent water changes or the addition of some kind of buffer are a necessity to keep a stable pH in a tank with soft acidic water that has a high bioload. With your low TDS water that may not be an issue but if someone is making RO and has alot of tanks its a nightmare.



At some point Gary I would recommend rechecking all your water parameters. I know from personal experience that well water can change over time. My water here has since the farm across the street started pumping ground water and irrigating.