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Thread: Zero GH with High PH and KH

  1. #1
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    Default Zero GH with High PH and KH

    PH/GH/RODI Question - Discus

    PH 8.75
    GH 0
    KH 214 ppm
    TDS 267

    Location: Colorado, East of Denver

    Link to water company report: https://rangeviewmetro.org/wp-conten...2023-CCR-6.pdf

    Iím keeping some new 3Ē-4Ē discus and I want to lower my PH some with RODI but before I start this process I want to better understand how my GH from my tap (cold water) is testing nearly zero. For context, my new API GH tests turn a slight green after one drop.

    Contingent on some testing, Iím planning to go with at least 50/50 RODI/Tap into my 55 gallon heated barrel for at least 24 hours and add seachem equilibrium to get the GH up but I want to have a better understanding why my GH reading is so low without a water softener and conformation Iím planning on tackling this the right way.

    Any water pros out there today?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by bigkat503; 03-31-2024 at 08:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zero GH with Hight PH and KH

    Hi,
    I think I would try another GH kit. Your readings are really unusual.

    If true.. I think your best bet is to use straight Ro and reconstitute with a commercial product. Normally I would suggest a tap water to Ro mix but your water as tested is really off.


    Your KH is about 12 degrees hardness (214 ppm ų17.9)
    If you cut that in half with RO your kH will still be around 6 which will still buffer your water. If you want to lower your pH its probably best to use 100%RO.. You can try try using maybe10- 20% tap but with a GH of 0 I would be concerned traces are missing.
    Al
    Last edited by brewmaster15; 04-01-2024 at 08:51 AM.
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  3. #3
    Moderator Team LizStreithorst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zero GH with Hight PH and KH

    I've lived in Moselle MS and outside Mobile AL. In both cases, my gH was 0. I have raised fish from a twinkle in the eye of his father to 8". I believe the fish get what they need from their food rather than from the water.
    Mama Bear

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    Default Re: Zero GH with Hight PH and KH

    Thanks for the reply.

    I posted this same question to Reddit and a person there thinks my water is softened from the water provider when considering the sodium levels on the water report I linked. Iíll call them to confirm this and might test the GH at my work so see if I get results (different water source).

    I had a feeling Iíd have to go with strait RO so I have seachem equilibrium and alkaline buffer on order. What levels for a grow out should I shoot for with the end goal to be a lowered PH?

    I saw the DIY thread on remineralizing pure RO and may go that route in the future but for now the off the shelf product will work. Is there anything else I should be adding to get my levels back up besides the ones listed above or will those two cover all the bases?

    Thank you!

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    Default Re: Zero GH with Hight PH and KH

    Iíve heard that as well I just fell like my PH is quite high. Iíve read threads about discus in high PH but none have been as high as mine. Also, the sodium levels in my water have been concerning to others in other forums.

  6. #6
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zero GH with Hight PH and KH

    Quote Originally Posted by LizStreithorst View Post
    I've lived in Moselle MS and outside Mobile AL. In both cases, my gH was 0. I have raised fish from a twinkle in the eye of his father to 8". I believe the fish get what they need from their food rather than from the water.
    If this were the case we could raise fish in distilled water and we can't.. Fish do take up minerals across the gills. .thats scientifically known. Im sure they can get minerals from their food as well but the whole reason most use RO tap water mixes or Ro Right type solutions is to put trace minerals in the water. .

    You also have to remember that you do huge daily water changes... most hobbyists do not. Trace minerals are so small amount that its doubtful they even register on our test kits...
    .
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  7. #7
    Homesteader Charlyc11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zero GH with Hight PH and KH

    Seachem equilibrium is for planted tanks if you do a hardscape you can use Seachem Replenish liquid instead it mixes better. Careful with the alkaline buffer it will raise your PH quite a bit.
    Just Call Me Chuck

    Disclaimer : I am an old man and all this information is from the top of my head so any mistakes noted I claim the 5th

  8. #8
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Zero GH with Hight PH and KH

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkat503 View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    I posted this same question to Reddit and a person there thinks my water is softened from the water provider when considering the sodium levels on the water report I linked. I’ll call them to confirm this and might test the GH at my work so see if I get results (different water source).

    I had a feeling I’d have to go with strait RO so I have seachem equilibrium and alkaline buffer on order. What levels for a grow out should I shoot for with the end goal to be a lowered PH?

    I saw the DIY thread on remineralizing pure RO and may go that route in the future but for now the off the shelf product will work. Is there anything else I should be adding to get my levels back up besides the ones listed above or will those two cover all the bases?

    Thank you!
    We have members that have water in the pH of high 8s ..most domestics will do ok in it... I think if you get your pH into the 7 its fine for discus as grow outs.

    Alot of water companies do buffer their water so it doesnt. Corrode pipes .
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    Default Re: Zero GH with Hight PH and KH

    I agree that 0 tds water is not suitable for raising any sort of fish. When I used to use RO water I typically would remove the final deionization resin stage and I found that left enough minerals in the water to raise any type of software fish, including obligate blackwater wildcaught species. RO membranes are usually rated for 90% removal and I found that consistent with my experience - my tds from the tap is 90-120 and post RO it is around 10. However if you want absolute control over what's in your water then the DI resin stage is useful in removing that last bit from the water and leaving you with a blank slate to reconstitute to your liking.

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    Default Re: Zero GH with Hight PH and KH

    Hello again,

    So if I do go with the 100% R.O. route, what products do you recommend I should use to re mineralize and to what levels?

    I have Seachem equilibrium for GH, what level should I shoot for?

    For the KH, I'm thinking 5KH should allow for a decent buffer for a stable PH? Planning on using seachem alkaline buffer for this. I see this product recommends it to be used with the acid buffer but I donít think I need to do considering I do weekly 50% water changes (usually 2x ~30% but letís use worse case of 50% 1x). Am I missing anything with this thinking?

    Looking for the best balance between stability and cost. Thanks again!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Zero GH with High PH and KH

    https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...92583-pH-GH-KH


    You realy have a huge window of whats done.. moderately hard water and moderately buffered is a good goal.. whats more important is. Stability and frequent water changes.

    Al
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Zero GH with High PH and KH

    Ok so I have been testing the 100% RO, re mineralized to 3KH and 3GH, after 48 hours the PH is still 8.7/8 or so. TDS is around 120 if I rememberer correctly.

    In your guys opinion, should I stop there or try to lower PH further with more extreme measures using muriatic acid? I tested in my 55 gallon drum (~50 gallons of RO water in it) with the acid and have it down to about PH of 7 (10 ml of acid) for 5-6 hours now. Will check it in the morning to see if itís stable. The KH went form 3 to 2.

    Question 1: why is my PH still so high? Curious more than anything.

    Question 2: assuming the dosing remains consistent, are the long term downsides to the fish when using harsh chemicals (acid) to lower PH?

    Question: is it worth it? If my PH was low low 8ís or high 7ís Iíd just run with straight remineralized RO, with a 3 KH/GH. Overall, I just want whatís best for the fish long term.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Zero GH with High PH and KH

    Hi, I would not use muriatic acid.. I went that route when I first moved in to this house because I wanted a lower pH. Its a pain to titrate the right amount and your water pH will bounce . Any CO2 in the water makes it even harder to get to a stable result. It used to be something alot of people did but really has fallen out of use as. We realized stable pH is better

    Your water pH is high still because its not being subjected to the. Nitrogen cycle and your starting pH was high.. Once in a fish tank with biological activities you will find the pH will drop lower as kH is consummed.

    What are your values for straight RO water?

    As it stands .. your water
    Ok so I have been testing the 100% RO, re mineralized to 3KH and 3GH, after 48 hours the PH is still 8.7/8 or so. TDS is around 120 if I rememberer correctly.
    will be ok for domestic discus. As I mentioned before we have members with similar or higher pH.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Zero GH with High PH and KH

    Thought I replied but must not have posted.

    Thanks for the advice, noted in the acid.

    Out of my RO, TDS is 3-4 with 0 KH/GH. I didnít not bother with a PH check on the pure RO.

    I went and emptied out the acid water and filled up a bit of tap for a WC tomorrow.

    Working on hard plumbing the RO to my house so should have the RO back up and running Tuesday to give the 100% RO remineralization a go.

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