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Thread: Alder Cones

  1. #1
    Registered Member steve b's Avatar
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    Default Alder Cones

    Been doing a bit of reading on the use of Alder cones in breeding and thought I would give it a try. Got a map of my local area and shows where any Alder trees are so finding them not a problem.
    I put one cone in 1L DI water and in 24hrs has a lovely colour the TDS has gone from 0 - 12 TDS.
    Wondering if anyone boils the cones and use the liquid in the tank instead of putting in cones.
    Do you use in the main tank to get the pairs going and/or use them in the egg tanks for stopping fungus taking hold?

    cone.jpg
    Last edited by steve b; 06-03-2024 at 04:48 PM.

  2. #2
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    Hey Steve, I haven't used alder cones here before as they are not too common locally compared to my oak leaves and Oak bark. Same concept though. I just usually put Oak leaves in the Ram tanks weighted down with some small Rocks ..Honestly not sure how much it helps with spawning ..I do it more because most of Ram Tanks here are bare bottom ...I have one with Sand. I use the oak leaves to add structure and forage areas for the Rams and they really are primarily bottom fish.

    For tannins I use oak bark added to the HOB filter or I boil it and use that.

    In your Adder cones experiment did you see any pH change?
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  3. #3
    Registered Member steve b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    As I put in DI water the Ph was not accurate so started a test today with the Ram tank water. Want to lower the Ph of the tank to around Ph6.9

    Tank water start: Ph 7.6 / TDS 130 / 1000ml Tank water / 1 small Alder cone.


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  4. #4
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    Steve is there s reason why you want to lower the pH?

    Im literally swimming in rams in my well water.. pH 7.6 Tds around 240ppm. Even my wild rams are breeding in this water.

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    Last edited by brewmaster15; 06-05-2024 at 07:01 PM.
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  5. #5
    Homesteader Charlyc11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    That's a lot of rams Al and looking great.
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  6. #6
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    Thanks Chuck. Im afraid I fell into my old habits.. and over bred... Im starting to have flash backs to when I bred angels
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  7. #7
    Registered Member steve b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    Holy crap thta's a lot of fry...... are the first ones Golden Rams? just what I have been reading that the best water parameters are aound 89TDS and Ph6.9 for breeding. Looks like it's not.... Only hope I am lucky enough to get fry growing up when I get them.
    Was thinking of 3 pairs in the 5' tank or 2 male and 4 female what do you think?

    24hrs with one cone has dropped the Ph to 6.6 and the TDS had also dopped to 115 TDS?

  8. #8
    Homesteader Charlyc11's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    Quote Originally Posted by steve b View Post
    Holy crap thta's a lot of fry...... are the first ones Golden Rams? just what I have been reading that the best water parameters are aound 89TDS and Ph6.9 for breeding. Looks like it's not.... Only hope I am lucky enough to get fry growing up when I get them.
    Was thinking of 3 pairs in the 5' tank or 2 male and 4 female what do you think?

    24hrs with one cone has dropped the Ph to 6.6 and the TDS had also dopped to 115 TDS?
    I found that if I would put a male and female together they just spawn anyway. No need for more of one or the other as long as they are sexed correctly. I use to separate by eye 3 or 4 pairs at a time on separate 6 gallon cubes and usually I had succes. Others do what you want to do and do well.

    20221002_211637.jpg
    Last edited by Charlyc11; 06-06-2024 at 02:37 PM.
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  9. #9
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    Quote Originally Posted by steve b View Post
    Holy crap thta's a lot of fry...... are the first ones Golden Rams? just what I have been reading that the best water parameters are aound 89TDS and Ph6.9 for breeding. Looks like it's not.... Only hope I am lucky enough to get fry growing up when I get them.
    Was thinking of 3 pairs in the 5' tank or 2 male and 4 female what do you think?

    24hrs with one cone has dropped the Ph to 6.6 and the TDS had also dopped to 115 TDS?
    Yes the first is Gold Rams.

    I wouldn' t expect your tds to go down. The cone is basically releasing Tannin which is acidic.. so the pH can fall. But the cones not acting like an exchange resin (which is what peat does) I would double check the TDS.

    I have done similar to you with the pairing.. I have also done the same as Chuck but using 10 gal tanks. It usually works but these are cichlids and sometimes the male and female will fight .. not a big deal.. Its the same with discus. Just separate them a bit and they usually get over it.
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  10. #10
    Registered Member steve b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    I triple checked the water in the main tank and 1000ml test sample and it had gone down (which is not right) will check again tomorrow 72hrs.

  11. #11
    Registered Member steve b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    Quote Originally Posted by steve b View Post
    I triple checked the water in the main tank and 1000ml test sample and it had gone down (which is not right) will check again tomorrow 48hrs.
    Tested after 48hrs Ph 6.4 down .2 TDS 111 down 4

  12. #12
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    Quote Originally Posted by steve b View Post
    Tested after 48hrs Ph 6.4 down .2 TDS 111 down 4
    Steve I don't know what to make of your values. But lets switch gears here and accept them.

    I put one cone in 1L DI water and in 24hr
    I think you will need alot of cones. Remember also that the cones arent bottomless pits of tannins. You will be doing water changes which means you will be bouncing all over the Place
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  13. #13
    Registered Member steve b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post
    I think you will need alot of cones. Remember also that the cones arent bottomless pits of tannins. You will be doing water changes which means you will be bouncing all over the Place
    So true, just doing tests to see what they do as never used them before. What I would do is make a Alder cone solution and add to the water change water to try to keep a balance of tank/new water. Not sure if I will use them but may do if I can't get the Rams to breed. Also they are supposed to be good for stopping fungus in eggs if you take them away frrom the parents? I think one cone would be too much in a small amount of water so a stock solution be best. But we will see how thing go when I get my fish, don't want to make things complicated... been there.

  14. #14
    Registered Member steve b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alder Cones

    Just added the 2L of cone water which I was testing and the water looks a beautiful warm colour so natural. No change in Ph or TDS so that's good news. More than 2 cones would turn the water dark brown.

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