HECKLE PROBLEM

[jim_shedden]

One of the wild heckles I purchased last month is looking a little under the weather. Its eyes are not as bright as they were, he has turned rather dark and he seems to be just hanging around. I treated them for internals last week. The water peramiters are right on and they get a 40% w/c per day. He isn't really sick yet but I feel he is coming down with something. He is eating but not real aggresively. The attached pictures are very poor. I do not have a digital with a quick shutter but you can get an idea of what he looks like as compared to the color of the others. I feel that it could be flukes.

[jim_shedden]

#2

[BlueTurquoise]

Hey Jim, sorry to hear about your heckle... he looks like a nice fish otherwise...

Does he dart around sometimes or have any cuts or scrapes along his body? does he scratch himself (typical male thing to do)?

My fish were showing these exact same symptoms last week and I also want to know if it is the same thing or similar so i can treat them the same way...

BTW I used elevated temps and salt and they are recovering slowly

hmmm :-\

Chong

[jim_shedden]

Hi Chong : He isn't moving around all that much. I have started to raise the temp and I have just added salt.

[BlueTurquoise]

hmm mine didn't either but every so often they would get really spooked and start swimming erratically and banged themselves onto the tank and other equipment and ended up with a few marks and scratches. Maybe it isn't the same...

Good luck Jim

Chong

[jim_shedden]

Chong : I was hopeing for some of your words of wisdom like : "FILLET HIM AND FRY HIM".........or something like that......... ;D

[BlueTurquoise]

ROFL!!! Well I really did want to say that but i thought you were touchy on the subject ;D ;D ;D . Fillet and fry? pfft a nice beer batter, ranch chips with sour cream and sweet chilli suace, touch of lemon and perhaps some white wine! LMAO

sorry I couldn't resist! It's lunchtime here! ROFLMAO!!!

Chong

[Francisco_Borrero]

You have shown that fish before and I really like him. Large, round, very dark rim all around, very dark bars. Beautiful! Location/origin ??
I don't know what is the problem, but a little salt and extra water changes for 2-3 days in a row is what I have done whenever I see a fish that "is nt quite himself but doesn't show a specific ailment". It has work for me everytime.
I add at least 3tbs/10gallons and continue adding the same over 3 days, so the concentration rises slightly. That has been all that it has taken. Of course, lots of observation at the same time.
The one thing that puzzles me is that you say that its eyes are not as bright. Heckels change eye color frequently, ad back and forth, but if I saw any cloudiness in one of my fish I would think water quality inmediately.
Just some thoughts. HTH, Francisco.

[jim_shedden]

Francisco : Thanks for the note. You may be right about the eye color. I have noticed the other heckles eyes changing as well. This particular heckle came from the Maderia area. I also have two other smaller ones. The smallest is like a bumble bee. Constantly on the move. One thing that I have read is that heckles like to hide. The two smaller ones like to hide behind the filter and the larger one likes to shadow the largest purus. Very interesting fish.

Thanks for the help : Jim

[yogi]

Jim you said you treated for internals last week, but you didn't mention what you used. If you changed enough water to think your tank is medication free. I would go with formalin at 1 ml per 10 gallons. That works out to 2 drops per gallon. Leave for eight hours and then do a water change. If it's flukes your fish will eat after the water change and not be as dark. Make sure the tank temp is no higher than 85. You can also use 2 tablspoons of salt per 10 gallons during the formalin treatment.

I have seven tanks of discus with six of the tanks containing wilds. A couple months ago I went away for a few days and had no one feed the fish. When I came home I did a water change and then fed the fish. In two of the tanks there was one fish in each tank that would not eat. I raised the temp to 93 and waited a few days and still no eating. I then used metro which also did not help. Then a fish in another tank started not eating. I said to myself this can't be happening. No heavy breathing or clamp gills.

Then in the new tank with the fish not eating I saw another fish rub it's gills on a filter tube. I hit this tank with formalin and the fish ate. I then lowered the other tanks to 85 over a couple of days and hit them with formalin. Now these fish started eating also.

They say adult discus are not bothered by flukes I say wrong. Or are wild caught more sensitive to flukes than domestics? good luck

[jim_shedden]

Thanks for the note Yogi.
I have noticed that he is now tilted at about a 45 degree angle facing down. When I fed them 10 minutes ago he was the only one that did not eat. His gills appear to be working rather hard and he seems to be swimming around aimlessly.
I am not sure if I can get Formalin without mailordering it. I do have Clout however. I think I may wait until morning at which time I will observe them and then make a decision on treatment if its required.
Thanks for the help. Any other ideas please let me know.

Jim

I agree,
One weak discus with flukes. :'(
Cary Gld!

[wildthing]

I disagree.
Did you do any kind of prophylactic quarantine?
IMO an adult fish will not be so dramaticly affected by flukes.
IMO This is probably the begining of the manifestation of a bacterial problem, probably something gramm neg.
Using sterile swabs like your doctor uses to swab your throat with take swabs from the fish's side & gill area where it looks worst & get them analysed asap. ( U.Georgia) it costs $20 & takes about a week for bacterial cultures & sensitivity tests. Do this today & fed-ex the samples tonite so they can start tomorrow morning when they get them. Time is of the essence.
Meantime...add salt, at least 4 tablespoons per 10 gallons to help prevent secondary problems. ( I use 1 lb per 75 gallons which = about 5 tablespoons per 10) Raising the temp is not needed but crank the airation. The correct antibiotic is required soon, before this spreads to your other fish, for sure they are already exposed to it but just don;t show symptoms yet.
If you don;t get the tests done you won;t have a clue what is going on or how to efficiently treat.
BTW, that is not really a heckel, it is a heckel cross.

[Francisco_Borrero]

I would say the recommendation of having a sample analyzed pronto is definitely worth following.
The part that sounds bad is that now the fish is headstanding, which may be related to bacterial infection (which ???).
I hope things start to look better.
By the way, if you wanted to use formalin and could't get it, one can use Formalite II (found at most LFS), which is largely formalin with some Malachite green. Formalin is better and good to have around.
Cheers, Francisco.

p.s. In my limited experience, heckels don't like to hide anymore than other fish, unless something is not right with them. I have 2 that hide, I know something is wrong, and I have not been able to fix it. They have been cleaned well, but something is there. My two most "boisterous" wild fish are heckels.

[jim_shedden]

Unfortunately I do not have access to formalin or formalite 1. I just ordered some from Big Al's and it will arrive in a couple of days. I do have pp. Jimmy L recommended that I pp them for a couple of hours. I have some pp and the instructions state to use 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons.
NOTE : This morning when I check on him he was swimming around like nothing was wrong. His color was still a little dark but otherwise there was no headstanding. I just fed them 5 minutes ago and he was ravenous. I really don't want to medicate the tank without knowing what the problem is. I think for the time being I will do some significant w/c's, raise the temp and add some salt. I would however appreciate your response to the pp.