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Questions for Breeders/Sellers
Let me start off by saying I really want to know the answers to these questions. If the tone sounds snippy, that is absolutely not my intention and I apologize in advance. Politically correct writing tone is not my strong point.
When I buy Discus (I am in the process of my first order now), my expectation is that what I receive will be the types I ordered, they will be alive and they will be healthy. If they are not alive, the buyer could not possibly be at fault, so the fish should be replaced by the seller. If it was the shippers fault, the buyer and shipper need to work out the problem. Healthy is a relative term that means if the fish come and are infected, or sick that the seller will work with the buyer to make them well and if they die the seller will replace them. The buyers responsibilty is to notify the seller immediately upon receipt of the sick fish, to follow all of the sellers instructions to make the fish well and to do all required maintenance (water changes and cleaning) the fish require. The seller is not responsible for the fish if they arrived healthy. I realize this is simplistic.
From what I read, some people selling fish don't seem to want the responsibility of replacing sick or dead fish, even if the problem was not clearly caused by the buyer. Statements are made to the effect, they only paid $30, what do buyers expect. If I spend $200 to $300 (8 fish plus shipping) on anything I expect it to be of good quality unless I am told otherwise prior to the sale. I expect this even if I'm getting a great price. If a seller wants to sell lower quality fish or sick fish at a discount, that fact should be clearly stated prior to the sale so there are no misunderstandings. An emailed bill of sale prior to the sale with the conditions of sale could be a good business practice to protect buyers and sellers and settle disputes at a later date. A seller saying that the buyer should have known the fish weren't great just because the price was cheap, in my opinion, is not a valid argument.
Regarding pictures
My goal is a nice selection of different color Discus for my show tank. I don't care for some of the specific strains of solid color or striated Discus. Because of the inconsitency in naming Discus, without a picture, for example, I don't know if what a seller is calling a spotted leopard is really what I want. That being said, I don't expect a picture of the actual fish I am getting. I want a representative picture of the type and color of fish you are sending. I realize most of the fish are younger and don't have their full color and the actual fish might not turn out as you expected. I expect a best guess of what you expect the Discus to be. The pictures will show me that we are on the same page as to both of our expectations for the fish.
My question is are my expectations unreasonable? If so, what do sellers expect from buyers?
Thank you. I think that when both sides spell out their expectations, it avoids misunderstandings.
Mark Neigut
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
Mark, I think your expectations are reasonable allbeit low. No way should a seller send a sick fish. it is totally irresponsible if the seller sent sick fish even with instructions for the remedy. Any seller worth anything at all --guarantees live delivery and for the fish to be healthy irregardless of the quality.
Joe
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
Hi TnMark,
I gaurentee live shipment or $ back!
I gaurentee high Quality Flawless Discus of your Choice or $ back
I gaurentee Health after shippment for 10 days or $ back
HTH
TakeCare,
Cary Gld!
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
Hi Cary,
That's what they call a blanket gaurantee, it can't get better than that, now if you'll also gaurantee breeding too .lol.
ps: just joking about the breeding part..lol.
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
Mark,
Your expectations are quite reasonable, cary goes a little further with 10 day garantee but that is the way he is....... health is not relative at all, quality is... if a discus is healthy, it won't bail on you in a few days, irrespective of how bad water conditions are... i have seen many newbies get disappointed when their fish don't turn out the way the pictures are, except for a few solid strains and some established ones, there is no garantee that the color will turn out like the pictures, discus change color to a great extent depending on the water conditions... express your expectations to the seller, stay with the knowledgeable ones.... both that frequent this site has answered here and the third I think is taking a little break....
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
I think it is also the job of the seller/breeder to get some information about the buyer of his fish. I do not sell very many (yet), but I try to see if they will have a good chance of survival and being able to thrive with the purchaser. If not, I have refused to sell to certain individuals. Frank
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
Frank i don't think that is an option for professionals. After all this is a buisness... right????
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
Frank,
You have made a valid point. IMO Yes the seller should have an interest in where their fish are going. And if they have a bad feeling about it, to stop the transaction before it turns into a bag of problems.
IMO
Miles
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
Frank,
I would be interested how you screen your customers when you put your fish out on Aquabid?
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
I think screening customers is reasonable because some customers (just like some sellers) are not reasonable. If someone has had experience with a problem customer or if a seller gets the feeling from discussions with a potential customer that they could be a headache if any minor problems crop up, you should not be faulted for refusing to sell to that person.
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
Runner, If I find what would be a bad purchaser on aquabid, I would risk a negative feedback from that person, and refuse the sale. Frank
Anand, I do not consider myself a professional yet, and will cross that bridge when I come to it, but do not think it will change my point of view. Frank
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
Frank,
I agree with you, why put all the effort time and money into a fish and then send them to a sure death, thats your time money and effort to get what you have worked for and you should at least take the time to educate new buyers on the does and donts of keeping discus. I would feel good about selling hardier fish like some of the old strains to start with like red turqs or some cobalts and later go with other strains.
Oscar
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
Frank,
When you do become professional, you will understand it, ask cary or joe or mike..... the same customer who had wonderful transactions with one have had major problems with the other, why??? that is the nature of this buisiness....... It is a very personal issue and hard to tackle.... I have high regards for these guys who try so hard to keep the reputation up in this tumultuous trade, where most are one time byuers and a simple alligation of one buyer costs you several more potential customers...... It is a hard thing to keep up......... not to mention bagging hundreds of fish every day... nah! nah! nah!!!! Not for me..... I can tell you that much....
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Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
I know Anand, I can't get you to ship me just one box! Frank
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Administrator
Re:Questions for Breeders/Sellers
I don't sell too much, and i don't expect the commercial breeders and seller to do this as it takes much time, but if I sense that someone interested in my fish has little or no experience I will take time to walk them thru the care of their fish, and I will send them to sites like this one where they can learn more. I always try to find out what their experiences are so I can fill in the blanks.
From what I have seen much of the probelms people have when they get good fish to start out with, is the lack of understanding as to what they need to do.
As an observation, I think the breeder/sellers that do take the time to teach what needs to be done, will win a repeat customer, and are the ones that are generally well thought of on boards like this.
Anyone can sell fish, but helping someone out may make the difference between a seller, and a great seller. It certainly earns the respect of those watching on the sidelines.
JMO,
al
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