help setting up a heckel biotope tank

[Fishworm]

I have a nice blank canvas to start with here and I want to set up a biotope tank for heckel discus. I am starting off with a 125 gallon aquarium filtered by 2 fluval 405 cannister filters. I got my new RO/DI unit so providing proper water wont be a problem.

I was planning on adding a thin layer of sand on the bottom, just to cut down glare and keep the fish happy. I also plan on adding some big, branchy pieces of driftwood. from what I have gathered reading all the posts here, heckel habitat is devoid of most aquatic plant life, so I might just add some leafy fake plants to the driftwood to simulate terrestrial plant life.

what I need to know is: should I go with a darker substrate? what kinds of schooling fish are found in heckel habitat that are available in the hobby? are any kinds of cory cats found there? I want to keep this as authentic as possible. I plan on getting 8-10 heckel discus, some schooling fish, some type of catfish and maybe some kind of pleco if there are any good algae eaters found in that area.


yeah, I know, I need to get off my butt and pick up Heiko's book. my discus library is severely lacking. all I have are Degen's discus book and Schmidt-Focke's discus book.

thanks for any help y'all can give me in setting up this aquarium.

[Fishworm]

also, does anyone know where I can get Heiko's book here in the US? I have been searching all night and I can only find it overseas...and paying 60.00 for shipping is pretty steep.

are there any other good online resources?

[Fishworm]

another edit.

found the book at fishbookstore.com. just ordered it. I am also reading the lessons on discuspassion.net and finding the answers to most of my questions. thank you Heiko for all the excellent info. I cant wait to get this thing set up and give my fish a happy new home.

[mcsinny99]

Why not put in the real thing when it comes to plants, if you are interested in a biotope, to me that is the most important part of it.

[Ed13]

Why not put in the real thing when it comes to plants, if you are interested in a biotope, to me that is the most important part of it.

Because, in this case plants are not part of the biotope. Actually many of the plants available to the hobby would prob fall outside of biotope aquaria as they are seldom found fully submerged, or even partially submerged in a season nor do they share locations. Kind of hard to duplicate a biotope with fish looking at the perspective of the plants rather than the perspective of the aquatic life. On the other hand some floating plants might be part of this.
I'm fairly interested in this project Fishworm, good luck!

[Fishworm]

all I have to do now is figure out what the heck to do with these tropheus and petrochromis. these things are hard to get rid of.

I cant wait to get started on this tank. I am going to get some nice fine white sand, and try to track down a couple of nice pieces of wood to hang from the top. this aquarium has the 3 braces so I figure that I can hang a nice piece from the first and third brace, giving the fish lots of open room in the middle.


grrrr....just looked in the 125 and I have 2 female petros carrying eggs again. I dont need any more!!!

[Ichthyology]

I have 2 copies of Heiko's book, one of which is autographed.....if the price is right, you can buy iy. Please PM me if interested.

As for plants, it is true, the only plants I have ever found with discus in their natural habitats are floating plants. Water lettuce is found everywhere. You also find "water lilies" growing in some areas.

A tank with sand and wood would be a great biotype, especially if the wood turns the water brown.

Just my thoughts.

[Apistomaster]

It sounds like you are off to a good beginning with the layout of your Heckels' 125 gal.
I like a fine white sand although I recently collected some sieved coarse and fine river sand which has more earth tones and some sparkling bits of mica that is going into the 125 gal. Substrates that are dark colored do not show off the colors of Heckels as well as lighter colors. They tend to adapt like a chameleon to the darker colors of substrate. I am setting up this weekend. The river the sand came from is a famous pristine high mountain wild Cutthroat Trout stream and the water tested 19 ppm TDS and pH was 5.1 so I think the sand will be good for use with wild discus. So we are both setting up the same size wild Discus tanks. I also collected small twigs and branches from the river for use in the new discus tank and my Apistogramma set ups.

I also like wood as the main decorative feature but I attach some Java Moss to pieces of some of the wood. I also have a few floating plants. I pot all rooted plants so at times I may include a few Amazon Sword Plant spp(Echinodorus spp) and have done that in my Heckel tank in the past but not recently. I find it hard not to include some green from live plants even if it is only a little as the Java Moss provides. Potting plants makes experimenting easy.
You already know that true aquatic plants are virtually non-existent in Heckel habitat and if you plan to provide water that matches their habitat they will not thrive or even survive unless you increase the mineral content some and raise the pH.
Water chemistry is the major area where I depart fro conventional expert opinion and I do not attempt to match their natural conditions. I have but the results did not make my fish look, act or grow any better so my Heckels live in local tap water with apH of 7.4 and 340 ppm TDS and have for years.

I have 10 Heckels and they may get to live in the 125 gal eventually but I plan to get pairs of wild Nhamunda S. haraldi first, then S. aequifaciatus. Once I have isolated all newly mated pairs of these other wild discus species I will then put my Heckels in it. I have had my group for 3 years and grew them out from ~3 inches diameter to large adults.

I will begin a separate thread to document the progress of my new 125 gal wild discus tank and we can compare notes. I'll be doing things a little differently than most.

[plecocicho]

Sure will be intersting comparing two wild biotope discus setup aquariums in the progress. Experience of you both will give me valuable informations for my own setup project. Unfortunally it is for now only on paper until i have more constant money injection.

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi Fishworm,

I am pleased you getting my book, it will for sure help you to understand wilds. (I guy just has written from Australia: Heiko,
i think your book should be compulsory for all would be wild discus owners (similiar to a licence) and i am happy that you have been reminded to finish book 2.
regards
Trace)
But I think you doing pretty good with the way you are going. And Antony suggested correctly, some floating plants, if Pistia, Salvinia or Eichhornia will do well. Driftwood and do not put to little sand, at least 1 inch, or more high.

Try to get the Heckel discus from a reliable source, that is very important. And let us have some pictures once settled.

All the best

Heiko
www.aquapress-bleher.com
www.aqua-aquapress.com

[Fishworm]

thanks for the tips Heiko. I got your book in the other day. wow...that's a lot of information. I need more spare time to read. that book is going to take a while.

I did find Salvinia for sale on ebay. it looks like an interesting plant that I havent tried before. I'll probably give that one a shot.


would y'all recommend adding any other fish in with the heckels or just keeping them by themselves? would they be more comfortable with a fish or two that they are used to seeing in the wild?

[Apistomaster]

I find Heckels do best kept with as large a group of their own kind as you can adequately house but there are a few fish I often keep with them that are inoffensive and do well in the same water conditions Heckels are adapted to.
Paracheirodon simulans, The Green neon
Dicrossus filamentosus, Lyre Tail Checkerboard dwarf Cichlids
and Ancistrus sp L183
I personally do not keep my Heckels in water similar to their natural environment and haven't done so for many years; that is just my choice and it works for me but if should you keep your Heckels in very soft acid water, these fish will do well with this Discus species and will not threaten the discus in any way. Heckels should be the dominant fish and all others fishes must not be able to dominate or crowd them in any way. Heckel discus are very social Discus and always are happiest when kept with large numbers of their own kind.
Never keep them with other discus species or domestic varieties.

[Fishworm]

thanks for all the info.

I got the driftwood and the sand ready to go. just have to get rid of the current occupants of this tank, hopefully this weekend.

I finally finished reading Heiko's book. that is one excellent piece of work and I cant wait for volume 2.

I am thinking that I will just keep the discus by themselves. most of the other inhibatants get pretty big. I really like the Mensonauta species, but I dont think I'll add any. the floating plants should keep algae down to where I wont need a pleco or anything.


I cant wait to get started on this next discus journey. and maybe I'll get lucky and convince them to breed.

[Apistomaster]

You may always add a pleco if algae does grow despite your floating plant cover.
I think you will find having some for keeping the wood mostly free of algae will eventually come up. I have a strong preference for having one or two Ancistrus and a few Hypancistrus sp to deal with the algae and discus foods that the discus either don't touch or can't find. Discus can't reach some of the places some of their food end up but the catfish can.
I haven't had to clean any algae off the glass or anywhere else for more than six months in my Heckels' aquarium. I just provide just enough light to grow Java Moss on my pieces of wood. Took these photos yesterday. The net bag, upper right is how I feed them pieces of frozen beef heart blend and blood worms.

[plecocicho]

Fishworm, mostly you can find in discus habitats carnivore and herbivore piranhas, acestrorynchus, cichla, mesonauta, pterophyllum, heros, satanoperca, geophagus cichlids. Only a handfull of small catfish (mostly lorricarids), small tetras and apistogrammas can be foud there. When discus move to flooded forests they live alongside wide warities of fish species including cardinal neon, apistogramma, etc.
Apistomaster nice fish! Is that dicrossus near apistogramma agasizzi in the first picture?