Ph

[bluedimond123]

Hello all, my ph is higher than most tap water is an I would like to know if it is ok to put discus in my tank comming from lower ph? Any help would be appreciated.
Jeff

[Chad Hughes]

What Ph are they in and what Ph are you trying to put them in? Usually moves up in Ph are nothing to be too concerned about. Dropping thePh can be disastrous. A little more info?

Best wishes!

[bluedimond123]

My ph is 8.0 8.5, an I would like to get some discus from a local an his ph is 6.5 7.0.
Jeff

[Keith Perkins]

I usually use some form of the drip method to acclimate new fish to my water over the period of an hour or more and have never had any issues with PH changes. I recently bought an awesome male RT from Carolina Discus who's PH is between 7 & 7.5 and he's doing awesome in my water who's PH is below 6. If you acclimate them slowly, you shouldn't have any problems IME.

[gwrace]

I usually use some form of the drip method to acclimate new fish to my water over the period of an hour or more and have never had any issues with PH changes. I recently bought an awesome male RT from Carolina Discus who's PH is between 7 & 7.5 and he's doing awesome in my water who's PH is below 6. If you acclimate them slowly, you shouldn't have any problems IME.

From Discus Hans....

As long as the PH of the new tank is higher there should not be any issues. When we received our 6 juvies from Hans he recommended we do the plop and drop. Our PH is 7.6-7.8 which was higher that the water they were coming from in Maryland. We had no issues and the fish were hungry and ready to eat within just a few minutes.

[Chad Hughes]

You should be fine just adding the new discus to your tank.

Best wishes!

[wesleydnunder]

I agree that if acclimated properly they should be fine.

Additionally, according to Robert T. Ricketts, long-time aquarist, scientist and occasional contributor to TFH and several web forums, fish have no receptors for ph and have no idea if the water they're in is at 7.5 or 6.5. What is commonly referred to as "ph shock" is actually osmotic shock caused not by changes in ph, but by changes in TDS, which effect osmolarity.

[Chad Hughes]

I agree that if acclimated properly they should be fine.

Additionally, according to Robert T. Ricketts, long-time aquarist, scientist and occasional contributor to TFH and several web forums, fish have no receptors for ph and have no idea if the water they're in is at 7.5 or 6.5. What is commonly referred to as "ph shock" is actually osmotic shock caused not by changes in ph, but by changes in TDS, which effect osmolarity.

Amen Mark!

I've made this exact statement more times than I can count!

You're spot on!

Best wishes!

[bluedimond123]

Thanks Guys, in that case im going to order 2 mercury discus an 2 rose reds!
Jeff

[mmorris]

I agree that if acclimated properly they should be fine.

Additionally, according to Robert T. Ricketts, long-time aquarist, scientist and occasional contributor to TFH and several web forums, fish have no receptors for ph and have no idea if the water they're in is at 7.5 or 6.5. What is commonly referred to as "ph shock" is actually osmotic shock caused not by changes in ph, but by changes in TDS, which effect osmolarity.

I see that quote in his 'new tank syndrome' article. However, elsewhere Ricketts seems quite concerned that tank ph, along with kh (ph related), gh and nitrates, remain stable between wc's, the neglect of which can lead to health issues and/or death.
http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/a...article55.html

Perhaps you are just referring to the original introduction of fish.

[Chad Hughes]

I see that quote in his 'new tank syndrome' article. However, elsewhere Ricketts seems quite concerned that tank ph, along with kh (ph related), gh and nitrates, remain stable between wc's, the neglect of which can lead to health issues and/or death.
http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/a...article55.html

Perhaps you are just referring to the original introduction of fish.

That is rather interesting. In a planted tank with CO2 injection, it's not possible to match the Ph of clean water with tank water. The Ph will always rise during a water change and then settle back to it's original range with CO2 injection. In all my years of keeping planted aqauriums, I can say that I could report any adverse reactions to Ph swing in the positive direction during a water change.

[nc0gnet0]

It is however a well known fact that nitrite is much more toxic at elevated PH levels. Add to this many anti-biotics just don't work (tetracycline for example) when added to water that has elevated PH. I think it is a case of both PH and TDS, coupled with ORP combined.

[wesleydnunder]

I see that quote in his 'new tank syndrome' article. However, elsewhere Ricketts seems quite concerned that tank ph, along with kh (ph related), gh and nitrates, remain stable between wc's, the neglect of which can lead to health issues and/or death.
http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/a...article55.html

Perhaps you are just referring to the original introduction of fish.

RTR has been a member of a few forums to which I belonged and I've had several online conversations with him through posts, as well as reading his comments in other posts. IMO he was always more concerned with the stability of KH and GH (TDS) and possible osmolarity issues from instability of those than ph. I wouldn't presume to try to speak for the man but that was always the impression I got from him. On the nitrate issue, he'd said that it wasn't only the nitrate to watch out for, but also DOCs that build up along with it. Since nitrate is a compound we can easily test for, it is used as a gauge of those other DOCs as well to determine frequency and amount of partial water changes. In hi tech planted tanks we often add nitrate after we've removed it along with the DOCs doing partials.

That is rather interesting. In a planted tank with CO2 injection, it's not possible to match the Ph of clean water with tank water. The Ph will always rise during a water change and then settle back to it's original range with CO2 injection. In all my years of keeping planted aqauriums, I can say that I could report any adverse reactions to Ph swing in the positive direction during a water change.

I agree fully. I ran the co2 in my discus tank on a day/night cycle. The concomitant ph swings never seemed to effect the tank inhabitants, likewise water changes.

It is however a well known fact that nitrite is much more toxic at elevated PH levels. Add to this many anti-biotics just don't work (tetracycline for example) when added to water that has elevated PH. I think it is a case of both PH and TDS, coupled with ORP combined.

Good point. I think ammonia is also more toxic as ph rises.

[mmorris]

IMO he was always more concerned with the stability of KH and GH (TDS) and possible osmolarity issues from instability of those than ph.

KH buffers the water to keep ph from dropping. He wouldn't be concerned with kh unless he was concerned with ph swings.

[wesleydnunder]

KH buffers the water to keep ph from dropping. He wouldn't be concerned with kh unless he was concerned with ph swings.

More, I think, in maintaining a minimum stable kh to avoid ph crashes which can make the water so acidic that it's lethal to biofilter and tank inhabitants.

You may be right, morris. I'm operating from a very imperfect understanding of chemistry and biochemistry. I've been a tron pusher my whole life. Over the decades I've kept fish, keeping the tank water as close to the source water in terms of TDS has seemed to me a much more important factor in long-term fish health and happiness than ph. Aside from the ph testing involved in helping some local aquarists set up co2 systems, I haven't taken a ph test in years.