Nitrate issues

[kensacco]

Please don't flame me for any of the following!

So, I purchased a 'slightly' stunted, but still young enough (3.5-4") PB from a Petco about a month ago. No, I couldn't resist the urge to save him, and I haven't had discus in about 15 years. At any rate, he's doing very very well - super active, eats like a champ, and he's definitely growing well now and rounding out a bit more too. The tank he is in is a 46 gallon with 3 GB Rams, small pleco, five ghost shrimp and fifteen assorted tetras (neon, bleeding heart, columbian). For substrate I have a half river stone, and half aragonite sand - depths ranging from 1.5" on the sand side, up to 5" on the stone side - blended in the middle. It's really quite beautiful to see! I also have three large pieces of Mopani wood, five pieces of Lava rock, and am fairly well planted. This tank used to be an African Rift lake tank, so the aragonite was being used as a PH buffer against the Mopani. I generally do a 30% water change every other day, and have never had any issues with mysterious fish die offs (other than the Africans mauling each other - which is why I switched to something more peaceful). Anyhow, I've always tested my Ph (6.8), Nitrite (0), Ammonia (0), GH (225 - even the Mopani hasn't helped this), KH (50), Chlorine (0)., but hadn't really tested my Nitrate. After I bought the Discus, knowing how finicky they can be, I tested Nitrate, with a result over 200ppm! I increased water changes to 60% daily, but that hasn't helped at all. I know when Aragonite goes to freshwater, there's a bacterial die off, but that switch was made over a year ago, and should be long since done with. I always use Prime during water changes as well. Filtered with a Biowheel 200 and a temp of 82. Yes, I vacuum the sand and gravel, but on the deep gravel I don't dig down too much so as not to release any of the anaerobic bacteria. 30 odd years of fishkeeping and I'm vexed! I test with EasyStrips, but also use API liquid dropper kits from backup when the strips report out of whack. Also, water from the tap, pre-Prime reads at:

NO3 -0
NO2 -0
GH - 150
Chlorine - 0 (this is odd, as I'll smell chlorine when I run the water hot, and otherwise, what else would they treat it with)
KH - 20
Ammonia - 0
Ph - 7.0

Any ideas? I'm loathe to do too much tinkering with the water chemistry, as all the fish are doing well...but that 200 just bugs the crap out of me!
P.S - I know many on this board are very much against planted and substrated tanks, so I put this post off for two weeks, but I'm really striving for a beautiful, natural looking tank!

[cjr8420]

i would say u have chloramines instead of just chlorine water co. are all switching to this so ur test kit might not read it,as far as nitrates its ur substrate being dirty and ur good bacteria doing its job.no matter how many water changes u do ur substrate is a nitrate factory thats why barebottom is reccomended.to change u have to fully clean ur gravel.when u do this on a regular basis there wont be anaerobic pockets to worry about.hth gl

[kensacco]

Having an anaerobic layer is not a problem as long as it is not disturbed though. Anaerobic bacteria turn nitrate into straight Nitrogen, which then diffuses through the water into open air. It's only when mixing aerobic top layers, and anaerobic bottom layers that you get a big parameter spike, as the beneficial bacteria in each layer can't survive in the others' layer...thus leading to massive die-off of your beneficial bacteria. I'm very careful not to disturb the gravel too deep on that end of the tank for that reason.

[cjr8420]

just answering ur question.ur substrate is ur nitrate prob to fix it clean it

[Orange Crush]

Yes the gravel prob has tons of food/waste products trapped in it causing your nitrAte problem.

Also, test strips are pointless to use since they are notoriously innaccurate.

I would put your fish into another tank/bucket and then thourougly vacuum the gravel down deep (although it would be better to remove it completely but, I understand your unwillingness to do that). It will release a lot of ammonia (which is why fish should be removed 1st). Then take all of that water out of your tank, refill it then drain it again, then refill it. Test for amm/nitItes/nitrAtes. Repeat the drain/refill until you get a 0 reading on all 3 perams. Then you can put the fish back in.

Another thought....do you have a cover on the intake of the filters? Do you clean your filters regularly?

[kensacco]

cj, I'd like to apologize if I came off as jumping down your throat, no disrespect intended!

[kensacco]

Yes the gravel prob has tons of food/waste products trapped in it causing your nitrAte problem.

Also, test strips are pointless to use since they are notoriously innaccurate.

I would put your fish into another tank/bucket and then thourougly vacuum the gravel down deep (although it would be better to remove it completely but, I understand your unwillingness to do that). It will release a lot of ammonia (which is why fish should be removed 1st). Then take all of that water out of your tank, refill it then drain it again, then refill it. Test for amm/nitItes/nitrAtes. Repeat the drain/refill until you get a 0 reading on all 3 perams. Then you can put the fish back in.

Another thought....do you have a cover on the intake of the filters? Do you clean your filters regularly?

As I said previously, I use the test strips for quick daily tests. When the strip shows something out of whack, I use API liquid kits. As far as the filter intake, yes it has a cover (so no dead fish in the filter, which is what I'm assuming you're getting at). As far as cleaning the filter and media, I alternate cleaning one, then the other. The media is about three weeks old, and the filter itself was cleaned maybe two/three months ago.

[Orange Crush]

As I said previously, I use the test strips for quick daily tests. When the strip shows something out of whack, I use API liquid kits. As far as the filter intake, yes it has a cover (so no dead fish in the filter, which is what I'm assuming you're getting at). As far as cleaning the filter and media, I alternate cleaning one, then the other. The media is about three weeks old, and the filter itself was cleaned maybe two/three months ago.

Test strips cannot be trusted, they will not always tell you when something is out of whack. Sometimes they will but sometimes you might have toxic levels of ammonia or nitrIte and never know it (and it does not take much for discus since they are much more sensitive than most fish).
The cover is to prevent food and poop etc. from getting into the filter. Oh, and try to avoid having dead fish and that will not be an issue

[kensacco]

Test strips cannot be trusted, they will not always tell you when something is out of whack. Sometimes they will but sometimes you might have toxic levels of ammonia or nitrIte and never know it (and it does not take much for discus since they are much more sensitive than most fish).
The cover is to prevent food and poop etc. from getting into the filter. Oh, and try to avoid having dead fish and that will not be an issue

LOL, no dead fish in a very long time!

[Orange Crush]

LOL, no dead fish in a very long time!