Tefe Greens

[woopaul5]

After much thought and consideration I decided that I really wanted to get into Wild Discus. They look so amazing and just how they act once accustomed to their environment. Alenquer reds and Tefe Greens where my top two choices... I ended up going with the Tefe Green that Mark from Discus Origins had. The excitement began and I had my 40 breeder set up from my prior QT. I set the parameters for wilds... since the filter was cycled prior all I had to do was clean and adjust TDS to 70 and GH to 2 and pH stabilized at 6.0. Figured I was set and waited for a day I could take off so I could be here for the arrival and acclimation.... Then UPS happened...

Since beginning 2015 I've been really hesitant in using UPS locally. Not saying they are bad everywhere but they have been sub-par in Rancho Sahuarita (my community in AZ). A lot of mishandled packages and no consistent delivery times. After speaking to the delivery driver after 2 days of mishaps (Thurs and Fri last week 9-10 July) last week he explained after the discus incident that they have been having issues with there loaders there...a lot of mis-deliverys and damaged packages...ETC

Well enough for dramatic effect but lets say I'm lucky to have my Tefe's for now... below is what my unboxing looked like





Pics where taken after fish were acclimated...

I panicked at first and went into action. I dropped the bags into the QT tank... I'm glad I decided to check how much water loss was for each bag (blacked out for shipping). First bag opened was a bag with a inch of water and a upside down Tefe that I thought was dead. Upon closer inspection it was barley breathing. I dumped water into the bag to see if it would move...to no avail. I sat it right side up and hoped for the best. On to bag two... punctured with slightly more water that first. I may of acted quickly but i dumped out the bad water and discus into nets and dropped them in. To my surprise they both weren't dead... Extremely stressed and barley living...

At this point I contacted Mark. He was upset as much as I was. He then gave me a lot of information on how to take care of them the next few days... let me tell you I was one panicked person for a few days... Constant questions. Mark if you happen to read this I cannot thank you enough... there were several mistakes I made in my QT to begin with (Sand/decorations/added corydoras and Rams prior to discus arrival to keep tank cycled). I really didn't know what to do... Mark assured me that he often gets Discus in this condition and it requires a lot of patience and simplicity. Clean water, clean water, clean water!!!!! I was instructed to many water changes and add salt 1 tspn per 10 gallons.
So far its working.



Day 1. Lights were only on for picture. Fins where extremely damaged in shipping and the upside down discus has a large ammonia burn on its side (not pictured)



Day 2 after 3 large water changes... slight swimming and no longer laying on their side or tail standing

Well here it is almost a week later and to my surprise they are still alive. I've never seen discus arrive like this ever!!! I'm still not in the clear yet but continuing the water changes and salt. (%50 daily with 80 R/O and 20 tap mix)

Both are still extremely stressed and I've tried feeding but I don't think they are eating. For the most part they are stationary and hate any light. Over the course of the last few days the tank has been converted to BB and Ram's have been removed (picking frayed fins) The one with the ammonia burn looks kinda bad still. Large open sore thats red and white. All advice is appreciated but I will be listening to Mark first and foremost.

I only have one question to the majority... do i need a feeding cone? I want these guys to eat but not rushing anything.


Once again Mark...THANK YOU!!! You are truly a person that cares for what he sells. You treated these two discus like they were still in your facility. thanks for the quick responses and patience in dealing with me. You are truly a great businessman

[Discus Origins]

Paul,

First, I want to thank you for your business and second I want to apologize to you again on the condition of the fish upon delivery. It is truly upsetting for me (and all suppliers) when we put in great care to package the fish as best as we can only to have our shippers (UPS, Fedex, USPS) decide to kick the box down the road not caring about the well being of the fish. You have been a great listener and I have no doubt the fish will come back to look as nice as they were in my tanks.

The shape of the discus were truly bad in that first photo you sent me. With so much water loss (the fish were double bagged in 4mm bags with a 4mm liner in between) the fish can actually become dehydrated through prolonged exposure to air. Once they settle in their bodies and fins will heal and the shapes will become more round visually when the fish are happy with their dorsal and anal fins extended.

As to eating, try to tempt them with some frozen bloodworms or blackworms. That's what we had them on here at the warehouse.

Keep up with the water changes and salt, wild discus are very resilient. They will come back beautifully with proper care and maintenance.

[Phillydubs]

Wow that really is a shame!! Sucks that people have no regard for packages, let alone livestock and they should be ashamed of themselves...

I have to be grateful that I and my company have a great relationship with our shippers and they always take good care... My guy is awesome, he will take the box to the front with him and put it in the side seat with a seatbelt on! So that goes to show they aren't all bad and careless, but this is an awful case and not fair or even funny... We pay good money to have these fish shipped from all over the world and to have a careless driver who doesn't take pride in his job cause harm or possible death to a gorgeous fish is just cruel...

[jmf3460]

Paul, goodness you have been through the ringer with your wilds. Even though they looked pretty bad in the first picture, like Mark said they look dehydrated. I can see beyond these pictures and I know that they are going to be absolute beauties once you nurse them back to health. I have green tefes as well. One question, why just 2? Do you have friends for them or are you hoping they become a pair?

[woopaul5]

I called UPS several times afterwards trying to get an explanation on how they could be so careless. I had a live shipment the next day for another aquarium of mine and the guy that was originally scheduled for delivery was bewildered when his truck was missing the shipment. Luckily it was found a few hours later with no casualties. As you can tell I was not happy of two days in a row of overnight shipping... normally I'm not one to complain but I called corporate offices. They had what I assume was the public relations lady call me... the excuse I got was poor. She admitted to the problem they have and said that this is normal operations for UPS. She stated that they do not cover perishables and that I should blame who I ordered from. What a crock of crap!!! She then mentioned that I wouldn't know what rush they are to get the packages out...that they are human... I'm pretty sure my 14 years as a Aircraft Maintenance technician that I would know what time constraints are... but enough about that.

Mark the fish are looking slightly better every day. The pic below will show the ammonia burn slightly better. About the feeding...I've been trying to give them frozen bloodworms... pretty much been a no go. They look interested but extremely skittish and usually just move to a corner. Should i get a cone feeder?



Sorry about the flash and glare...trying to keep the room dim lit.

Jacklyn... I'm new to wilds and I only have two cause its a 40 breeder. Didn't want to overstock. I'd love to get more but the way these two are right now... not sure if a few more in here will be a good thing. If you think a few more will get these eating or less stressed I'm game. I don't mind putting in the work for happy Discus!!!

Thanks to everyone that are wishing the fish well!!!

[khooyang]

Wow...wat a journey for your wilds. Their shape look amazing. Great quality discus....but 2 would be too little i think. 5 or 6 would be great. U plan to mix with domestic?

[Second Hand Pat]

Paul, having two is doable but patient is the key. If you have a little clean PFS laying add a couple of handfuls to the bottom to give the fish a little extra comfort.
Pat

[jmf3460]

agree with Pat on a little sand on the bottom. Also if you had a larger group they would feel more comfortable and safe to eat. There is safety in numbers your know. Maybe throw a big piece of wood in there for them to feel like they have cover if they need it.

[woopaul5]

I'll have to pick up a bag of sand tomorrow.

I ended up just ordering another two tefe's from Mark. Trying not to overcrowd the breeder.

Looks like their MT is going to have to be purchased sooner than later...

Thanks again for the advice and well wishes!

[rickztahone]

Man, that is too bad. It would be great if UPS and FedEx had this as their policy:
"You pay us in full for the package to be delivered. Every mishandling of the package will result in a partial reimbursment depending on the damage". In the OP's case, I would say a full refund would be in order if they adopted these principals. I bet corporate would have a little more to say to their workers if they kept losing money on mishandled packages.

OP, keep at it, and I am sure they will pull through for you. I hear wilds are super resiliant.

[Rudustin]

Words are not enough to hear and see what you have been going through with these lovely discus. You need to be persistent in your complaint. Letters, email, texts whatever and keep complaining. I know it take time but you need to do it. Wishing you the best with their recovery. With good care like you are giving them I'm sure they will recover. Rufus

[woopaul5]

Words are not enough to hear and see what you have been going through with these lovely discus. You need to be persistent in your complaint. Letters, email, texts whatever and keep complaining. I know it take time but you need to do it. Wishing you the best with their recovery. With good care like you are giving them I'm sure they will recover. Rufus

Thank you!!!

Persistence will be key

[woopaul5]

Finally a update with good news!!!

I ended up getting another 2 Tefe's from Mark (Discus Origins), FedEx was used for shipping this time around. Package arrived in great shape. My parents were visiting in town (babysitting the dog) So I didn't have to take off anymore work. From what the parents said the fish were extremely well packed. One discus was in immaculate condition...other thrashed itself during shipping. It's been a few days and fish are schooling and developing a pecking order when eating. Took awhile but they are all finally eating!!! Todays been the first day that they actually kind of begged for food. Starting to follow me around the room and actually staring me down right now. I'm actually gonna take a break this evening from them (WC wise)...don't want to ruin this trust they've formed with me. Plus I'm beat... Barrels of RO is in the laundry room (furthest point from office) and 20 gallon daily WC via bucket is taking its toll on the spine. Water parameters are golden!!! Even with adding salt to the aquarium the TDS only jumps to 170's. Still using a 80 RO 20 tap mix with a splash of Kent's discus essentials.



As you can see the fish in the foreground to the right is healing quite nicely. Scab is almost 100% healed. Fish in background right is the new one that needs to heal (all fins damaged and scabbed up a bit)

Tomorrow back to regular scheduled maintenance and more... (50% WC on wilds, wall scrub on CRS, 100% WC and substrate change and cleanse of domestic tank...eco complete!!!) If anyone in the Tucson area is selling a 150+ gallon with stand please
PM me

[Discus Origins]

Great news on the second shipment, looks like they were definitely better taken care of!

Here is a hint on water changes - go to Lowes/Home Depot and get either a 35g or 50g Brute plastic trash barrel, 8 ft of 1/2" inside diameter clear plastic tubing, and a wooden dolley (they cost like $10). Go to your LFS and get a water pump that will at least do 600gph. It will make your life easier if you fill the barrel with the premixed water, roll it out to the tank, and then pump it into the sump/tank in 5min as you watch. No more buckets back and forth

[Phillydubs]

I agree with mark 100% and it has been a life saver for me to use this method! Water changes are so easy and not a drag or a bother, I do them so frequently now it is just part of the day... Don't know how I used to do 5 gallon jugs...