Discus Plague does it exist

[Tom Fowler]

Hi all there are some people that say there is no such thing as discus plague. What do you think? let me have your view and experiances............Tom F

[Rod]

Hi Tom,

IMO the name discus plague is just a generalized term for a number of diseases that can afflict discus. Normally its given to fish that have dark body color and excude excess slime, these symtoms can be attributed to a number of pathogens.

HTH

Rod

[jim_shedden]

Tom : Somewhere in our archives we have a file on the discus plaque that got rather heated up. I guess about a year has gone by since then so maybe there is some new information out there.

Jim

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Nota,

good post rod! ;D

[Jason]

a few of us have been comparing notes over the years, looks like the "plague" type symptoms are a general imuno response, or secondary infection to whatever the fish is carrying, wether its a bacteria, protozoan, or other nastie.

some you have a fighting chance, others your fish die in front of you one by one and there's nothing you can do.

I'm not sure if the late 80's early 90's desease that wiped-out alot of commercial discus and angelfish hatcheries was ever identified or not.

the worst one I've had so far wasn't deadly to adults, just to fry as soon as the fry were stressed, they would turn black and die, applying anti-biotics would save some, but they always grew to be culls. I still don't know what it was, I did'nt have acess to a lab at that time.

if the plague is actually something unidentified and not just the fishes response or secondary infection to something identifiable, I would'nt be surprised.

the world is getting smaller, germs and viruses can travel with us to everywhere man goes, we are encroaching on more territory and the organisms that live there, saltwater pathogens are evolving and adapting to freshwater and vice versa.

bottom line, quarantine! get testing done if you are able too! and share your experiences with others!

[fishfarm]

Hi, I don't know if it is a single disease or a complex of things, but at one time it was a major problem with Discus and angels, especially from some southeast Asia hatcheries. It's been about 5 years since I have seen plague like symtoms in any of the fish I have imported. Here is a great website with some research on the plague. Ken

http://home.nc.rr.com/hammerklavier/index.html

[Wolf]

That looks like what my fish had last year. Columnaris. I was able to save half my fish but lost about 4 fish. It was my first hard lesson in why we need to quarantine. Not that it matters but the fish were from sing.

[brewmaster15]

I agree with Rod, Cary, and jason.

some additional reads...
http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index...d=4489;start=0

http://forum.simplydiscus.com//index...;threadid=3196

-al

[Tom Fowler]

I think there is a strange phenomena which happens when you mix Discus from the far east with your own stock without proper quarantine it seems to trigger a whole series of advents which we can call plague,fish turning dark slime coat comming off and progressing to other diseases. Without inroducing new stock and with no contamention from other sorces your fish are not likely to suffer from the plague JMO............Tom F

[discus_nw]

I don't doubt that the plague exists. I think alot of diseases today are called plague because many symptoms of various diseases look very similar.

Bear with me, please, if you heard this story before, because I have posted it several times on several forums the last three years.

A fish biologist from the Seattle area gave a talk one night at our aquarium society on fish diseases and cures. Discus plague was only briefly brought up during his talk. I caught up with him at our cars afterwards where we chatted about an hour, hour and a half. He had an angelfish hatchery and when the plague first hit this country, it wiped him out. Over a period of time, he tried many treatment protocals for variuos pathogens with no, or at best, very little success. As I recall, he either was working at the University of Washington doing some research or was doing post grad work and had access to their laboratory (something along those lines anyway).

Eventually, after exhausting all avenues to determine if the "plague" was caused by a bacteria or protozoa, he thought perhaps it was a virus causing the problem. He then took the water from a tank containing plague contaminated angelfish, filtered it through a filter so small, no bacteria could pass through it. A virus was all that would be able to do so. He had also purchased angelfish from someone in another area of the country that had not been affected by plague. He placed the angelfish into the filtered water and.......

they died from plague symptoms.

He had some thoughts about this disease by some of his observations. He did notice some fish would live in spite of having the disease. After all his work trying to figure out what the exact pathogen was, he concluded that the primary pathogen was a virus, but he had observed that the angelfish fell prey to many oppurtunistic pathogens as well. Wattley had printed a story on his no med treatment of plague shortly before our talk. I explained it to him as I had read it and printed several copies of Jack's method for some friends of mine. Interestingly enough, Wattley's method of cure worked hand in hand with this biologist's theory.

He said he felt that the virus itself is not sufficient enough to kill the fish. Given time, a fish would survive the viral attack if it didn't die first from secondary oppurtunistic pathogens. Wattley's method of lowering the temp and the pH over time would prevent alot of pathogens from establishing a hold on the affected fish and give the fish time it needed to ride out the virus. Other's have had some success by treating discus/angelfish with a strong PP bath followed by an antibiotic protocal such as a neomyacin/sulfa drup combo, killing first any protozoa and any other ectoparasitic attack and then killing any bacterial attacks. Other's have used an agent such as Clout followed by an antibiotic. By keeping the discus free from secondary infections, it was believed the discus had a chance then to fend of the virus.

This is no doubt why some call the plague "Discus AIDS", as humans die from oppurtunistic diseases when HIV positive.

Who knows? Just another perspective. This gentleman also worked at one time for a large wholesaler where he treated all species of fish upon arrival for every disease a fish could have.



That was prevoiusly posted by me on this forum awhile ago. I haven't had any reason to change my mind about the plagues existance. This disease wiped out thousands upon thousands angelfish and discus, whole hatcheries at a time, so it amazes me that people think it doesn't exist.

Could discus plague really have a parallel to HIV infection and AIDS? Remember, the HIV virus doesn't kill humans, it's usually pneumonia that kills an HIV positive human. This could be the same in discus. Discus may die from a secondary infection because of the distruction of its immune system. These secondary infections alone wouldn't normally kill a discus.

Another thing is calling a disease the plague that isn't the plague. How many state they have the plague and have a protozoa or bacterial attack?

I tend to believe the viral therory. (no doubt carried by the nasty cbw) ;D ;D J/K