What is discus plague ?

[diamond_discus]

I have heard about this term. What exactly is this ?

[Eddie]

I have heard about this term. What exactly is this ?

Its a severe outbreak that can kill fast. Its something that one fish or another discus can carry and it infects fast. Many believe it to be a virus that lowers the fishes immune system, allowing multiple parasite infestation. Who knows, I just know that there are fixes if acted upon quickly and with the right chemicals/antibiotics.


Eddie

[diamond_discus]

Its a severe outbreak that can kill fast. Its something that one fish or another discus can carry and it infects fast. Many believe it to be a virus that lowers the fishes immune system, allowing multiple parasite infestation. Who knows, I just know that there are fixes if acted upon quickly and with the right chemicals/antibiotics.


Eddie

So what is the fix and how to avoid such disaster ?

[pcsb23]

Personally I think it is a myth

ime I have NEVER seen a case that could not be explained as bacterial (usual), viral (rare as rocking horse poo) or parsites (common).

Very much think it's a case of "oh my discus have gone black and they are dieing - must be the plague" yeah right!

But that is just my opinion ......

[Bilbo_wh]

The classic answer is a strong PP bath but I have never seen anything that could be called Discus plague so I have never had to try.

[Chad Hughes]

By definition, Plague is a severe and potentially deadly bacterial infection.

[Eddie]

So what is the fix and how to avoid such disaster ?

PP followed up with a good gram negative antibiotic. This shouldn't be used as a preventative but as a treatment for an actual problem.

Eddie

[prolude006]

I tried pp and then the antibiotic but all three of mine passed on. They all had exactly the same syptoms before dieing so I would call it a "plague" they got it and died within a +- 48 hour period, very rapid.

[Eddie]

I tried pp and then the antibiotic but all three of mine passed on. They all had exactly the same syptoms before dieing so I would call it a "plague" they got it and died within a +- 48 hour period, very rapid.

Which antibiotic? Did you combine salt with the antibiotic, keep low temp?

[brewmaster15]

Personally I think it is a myth

ime I have NEVER seen a case that could not be explained as bacterial (usual), viral (rare as rocking horse poo) or parsites (common).

Very much think it's a case of "oh my discus have gone black and they are dieing - must be the plague" yeah right!

But that is just my opinion ......

Ditto .....100%

-al

[ShinShin]

I don't understand how anyone who has been into discus for a long time can call it a myth. There are many documented cases back 20 or more years ago where entire angelfish and discus hatcheries had been wiped out in a matter of days. Many of these hatcheries were owned by professional angelfish and discus breeders who were well schooled in disease protocals.

There has been many theroies on what it (discus plague) actually is. Most, but not all, believe it is a viral infection that reduces the immune system to a degree that oppurtunistic pathogens can over take and kill the discus, very similar to AIDS. Following this theory, it is believed that if one can keep a discus alive through the secondary infections, the discus can clear the virus. Wattley has a protocal he developed way back when that was a nonchemical method that lasted about 3 weeks. Many of the discus recovered. Others, Jim Quarels comes to mind here, recommended a strong PP protocal (Jim called his the PDQ method).

An ichthyologist in the Seattle area owned a small angelfish hatchery that was hit by the plague after importing some breeding stock from Asia. He lost all his fish in short order. No medications worked. He also worked for the largest tropicafish importer in the Pacific Northwest at the time and was responsible for treating new fish. Disease and medications were his "thing". He obtained some fresh breeding stock from a domestic breeder that had not been infected. His new fish died within days. There was no problem at the breeder's hatchery where the new fish were purchased. In an experiment, the water that contained discus that had become infected was filtered with a filter capable of filtering out all microbes down as small as bacteria, but not viruses. He obtained more discus out of the Midwest once more. Again, all fish came down with the exact same disease. He followed the idea that it was a virus, treated for secondary infections as he dignosed them, and around 3 weeks some of the angelfish survived. His chemical method followed the same timeline as Wattley's, both having similar results. Some fish from the same shipment were kept at another location as a control, and were fine throughout the time frame.

The symptoms were always the same. Yes, many diseases involve black discus and excessive slime. We all know this. This disease differed in that the slime peeled off in huge sheets, the discus refused food, and there was a stench in the hatcheries and fishrooms of those infected. One or two fish in the tank won't just get it. They all do, and it jumps tank to tank.

I agree that the "plague" has been blamed too many times for other pathogenic outbreaks. There was, however, an outbreak in the USA via Asia that has been well documented. I perfer Discus AIDS to plague.

Mat

[Eddie]

I don't understand how anyone who has been into discus for a long time can call it a myth. There are many documented cases back 20 or more years ago where entire angelfish and discus hatcheries had been wiped out in a matter of days. Many of these hatcheries were owned by professional angelfish and discus breeders who were well schooled in disease protocals.

There has been many theroies on what it (discus plague) actually is. Most, but not all, believe it is a viral infection that reduces the immune system to a degree that oppurtunistic pathogens can over take and kill the discus, very similar to AIDS. Following this theory, it is believed that if one can keep a discus alive through the secondary infections, the discus can clear the virus. Wattley has a protocal he developed way back when that was a nonchemical method that lasted about 3 weeks. Many of the discus recovered. Others, Jim Quarels comes to mind here, recommended a strong PP protocal (Jim called his the PDQ method).

An ichthyologist in the Seattle area owned a small angelfish hatchery that was hit by the plague after importing some breeding stock from Asia. He lost all his fish in short order. No medications worked. He also worked for the largest tropicafish importer in the Pacific Northwest at the time and was responsible for treating new fish. Disease and medications were his "thing". He obtained some fresh breeding stock from a domestic breeder that had not been infected. His new fish died within days. There was no problem at the breeder's hatchery where the new fish were purchased. In an experiment, the water that contained discus that had become infected was filtered with a filter capable of filtering out all microbes down as small as bacteria, but not viruses. He obtained more discus out of the Midwest once more. Again, all fish came down with the exact same disease. He followed the idea that it was a virus, treated for secondary infections as he dignosed them, and around 3 weeks some of the angelfish survived. His chemical method followed the same timeline as Wattley's, both having similar results. Some fish from the same shipment were kept at another location as a control, and were fine throughout the time frame.

The symptoms were always the same. Yes, many diseases involve black discus and excessive slime. We all know this. This disease differed in that the slime peeled off in huge sheets, the discus refused food, and there was a stench in the hatcheries and fishrooms of those infected. One or two fish in the tank won't just get it. They all do, and it jumps tank to tank.

I agree that the "plague" has been blamed too many times for other pathogenic outbreaks. There was, however, an outbreak in the USA via Asia that has been well documented. I perfer Discus AIDS to plague.

Mat

Great post Mat!

[yim11]

This is a great discussion.

I often wonder if we don't have a situation where what Mat says was the case years ago, in that there was an actual plague that did wipe out lots of stock, but today we have a different situation.

I'm not convinced today's "plague" is the actual discus plague of the past that Mat speaks of. I think today's situations are best described by what I like to refer as the 'Mexico' theory.

The theory being imported fish are like drinking the water in Mexico. We all know not to drink the water when we visit Mexico as it contains bacteria our bodies aren't used to. Just as some imported fish will contain bacteria our domestic fish aren't used to. Long story short - over time both can be acclimated to accept the different conditions/bacteria.

Regardless, I do think the term "plague" is tossed out way too quick and way too often these days when a tank of fish goes dark or sheds slime.

Just my $0.02 and not sure its worth that much,
-jim

[brewmaster15]

Mat,
Anytime a tank of discus gets sick, its a "plague" of somesort on the fish and the owner...but to draw the conclusion that the disease agent is the same for all these cases or even the majority of them when there has never been a specific pathogen that has been identified is my problem with "plague" .. Yes there have been speculations and yes best guesses that a specific agent was the cause...but never a definitive lab analysis.

Taking a group of fish that are acting sick and artificially identifying them to have the pathogen as the dreaded "plague" then leads to others recommending the "plague" treatments that may be extremely dangerous, make things worse, or even can kill their fish.. and the poor hobbyist undertakes them in the belief that this the "Dreaded Plague" and if they don't they'll lose all their stock.

I'm sorry... I have seen far too many cases where people have been convinced they had the Dreaded "Plague" and what they had was a bacteria or a protozoan infection...

I am sure that over the years there have been outbreaks of various pathogens at various hatcheries and hobbyists homes, and I am sure that large numbers of people could have been infected by them...But I also see many variations of symptoms and many treatments that have been reported to work...that alone tells that "Plague" is not caused by one organism .

JMO,
al

[hedut]

I was wonder how long you wil need give those pp and antibiotic? Could you share more detail?