I am back!! Six new Cuipeuas from Mark/WB Sabby

[DiscusBR]

Hi Everyone,

And you thought you got rid of me :) I am excited to report that I am back to the hobby. For those that are not familiar with my previous history with discus, here is a quick recap from previous threads:

- In the beginning of 2011 I got 7 Cuipeua discus from WB Sabby when I was living in Brazil. One year and half later I was able to fulfill my dream of breeding Cuipeuas. I got two pairs and raised a batch of juvies from one of them:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?100638-Eggs!!-And-they-did-it-while-I-was-travelling&highlight=

- When I moved from Rio de Janeiro to New Orleans in 2013, I sold all Cuipeuas and kept one pair. A crazy adventure took place, when I was able to bring the pair to the US with the help of Yamamoto (WB Sabby), Mark (Discus Origins) and Pat (Second Hand Pat). Unfortunately, the pair ended up perishing and I decided to give up discus-keeping for a while:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?107661-The-Saga-Cuipeuas-trip-from-Rio-to-New-Orleans&highlight=

Well, the decision to quit did not last long. I got a 75g tank and decided to get 6 Cuipeuas from Mark's last shipment from WB Sabby. The fish have been in the tank for 11 days and they are still quite skittish, gathering in one of the corners for most of the time. So I had to use Al's FDBWs to lure them into action for a video :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOPzKkSO7uo

I also took a few pictures of the Cuipeuas:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/Foto1_zps8jo1e5iq.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/Foto3_zpsaeqqx4cd.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/Foto2_zpskswwnlph.jpg

And also of the 7 Corydoras CW012 that I got from Mark:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/Foto4_zpsuabvlz7g.jpg

I am VERY impressed by the quality of the fish. Some of them are already showing amazing colors. It feels great to be back in the hobby with such nice beginning. I am broke but I am happy :) It all your fault!

[sdrexler078]

Congratulations and welcome back. I remember reading your threads from the journey to the US. Are you still in New Orleans?

[DiscusBR]

Congratulations and welcome back. I remember reading your threads from the journey to the US. Are you still in New Orleans?

Thank you. Yes, I am still in Nola. Nice to see another hobbyist from Louisiana.

[jmf3460]

your fish are beautiful. I got some of John's large green tefes this year. what are you using for substrate?? it looks like fairly large grain size and I like it. welcome back to the hobby I am sure it was never too far from your brain.

[DiscusBR]

your fish are beautiful. I got some of John's large green tefes this year. what are you using for substrate?? it looks like fairly large grain size and I like it. welcome back to the hobby I am sure it was never too far from your brain.

Thank you. Good luck with your Tefes! The substrate is pool filter sand that I got from Lowe's.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Mauro, so nice to see you back into discus and the Cuipeua from Mark are amazing. Mine have turned very red. They are the best wilds I have ever had. Beautiful group you have there :D:D
Pat

[Keith Perkins]

Welcome back my friend, not a moment too soon. Very nice looking group.

[Second Hand Pat]

Mauro, your video is private.
Pat

[DiscusBR]

Hi Mauro, so nice to see you back into discus and the Cuipeua from Mark are amazing. Mine have turned very red. They are the best wilds I have ever had. Beautiful group you have there :D:D
Pat

Thank you, Pat. Your group of Cuipeuas looks fantastic. Good luck with them and keep the pics coming :) I agree, the quality of this shipment is obvious.

[DiscusBR]

Welcome back my friend, not a moment too soon. Very nice looking group.

Thank you, Keith. It is nice to be back.


Mauro, your video is private.
Pat

I checked the settings and they say it is public. Anyone else having trouble watching the video?

[Altum Nut]

I checked the settings and they say it is public. Anyone else having trouble watching the video?

Welcome back Mauro and hope the transition from Rio to Louisiana has worked in your favor. Agree with the others and love your new group.
As for the video...I cannot view it either and seems to be private.

...Ralph

[Kirbs]

Beatiful group if Discus....and I love the Cories too!

[DiscusBR]

Welcome back Mauro and hope the transition from Rio to Louisiana has worked in your favor. Agree with the others and love your new group.
As for the video...I cannot view it either and seems to be private.

...Ralph

Thank you, Ralph. It is nice to be back to New Orleans, love the city.

I changed the link. Please folks let me know if you can see the video now.

[DiscusBR]

Beatiful group if Discus....and I love the Cories too!

Thank you. As for the cories, they are supposed to be quite rare.

[Larry Bugg]

I'm glad you jumped back in the water Mauro. They look fantastic.

[DiscusBR]

I'm glad you jumped back in the water Mauro. They look fantastic.

Thank you, Larry.

Is the link to the video working?

[Altum Nut]

Thank you, Larry.

Is the link to the video working?

The link is now working Mauro. Great looking group with no surprises as you seem to have the knack when keeping wilds in your care.

...Ralph

[DiscusBR]

The link is now working Mauro. Great looking group with no surprises as you seem to have the knack when keeping wilds in your care.

...Ralph

Thank you for letting me know, Ralph. And thank you for the compliments. I am not skilled with wilds like Pat and others, but I try to do my best :)

[Keith Perkins]

The link is now working Mauro. Great looking group with no surprises as you seem to have the knack when keeping wilds in your care.

...Ralph

My memory is a little foggy, wasn't it mostly leave for long periods of time and then come back and take care of fry? :D

What ever it was Mauro, I hope you find that groove again.

[DiscusBR]

My memory is a little foggy, wasn't it mostly leave for long periods of time and then come back and take care of fry? :D

What ever it was Mauro, I hope you find that groove again.

:)

[Second Hand Pat]

Thank you for letting me know, Ralph. And thank you for the compliments. I am not skilled with wilds like Pat and others, but I try to do my best :)

hmmm...two breeding pairs of wilds in a 80 gallon tank. You definitely have the groove Mauro :D

[DiscusBR]

hmmm...two breeding pairs of wilds in a 80 gallon tank. You definitely have the groove Mauro :D

Pat, I was just applying the knowledge I got from generous forum members like you :)

[Discus Origins]

They are looking great Mauro!

With your care and some settling in time you will have a beautiful group again :)

[DiscusBR]

They are looking great Mauro!

With your care and some settling in time you will have a beautiful group again :)

Thank you, Mark.

Fun fact: did anyone notice in the video at 56 seconds how one of the Cuipeuas tries to reach the FDBWs from the bottom of the feeding cone? :) Quite funny.

[discuspaul]

Wonderful to have you back, Mauro. Very nice way to get back into the hobby with those awesome wilds.

[spiffyfish]

Sweet it's cool that you are back, I always admired your tank when you had it in Brazil.

[John_Nicholson]

Nice to see you back.

-john

[brewmaster15]

Hi Mauro!!

Great having you back with us my friend! The fish look great as well! Looking forward to many updates from you!

al

[DiscusBR]

Thank you Paul, Chris, John and Al. Nice to be part of this gang again.

It is interesting that after almost two weeks in the tank they are still quite skittish. When the lights turn on they tend to congregate in one of the corners of the tank. I have a Marineland LED fixture that is not strong at all. Moreover, the fixture is connected to a timer that slowly increases the lighting level over a period of 15 minutes and which also gradually dims the light over 15 minutes before turning off. As a result I don't have to deal anymore with fish darting when lights come on or off. Despite all that, the Cuipeua are still quite skittish.

As usual, the key is patience, making sure you let the fish settle. But I was wondering what has been folks' experiences with Cuipeua's initial adaptation. Pat's group seemed quite happy in their new home after just a few days. Any experiences?

[Second Hand Pat]

Mauro, I have dim-able LEDs and mine will go corral in the corner if it is too bright so experiencing the same as you.
Pat

[pcsb23]

Welcome back Mauro, fish and tank look great.

[jawfish]

Welcome back Mauro.. very impresive group. I really like them. Looking forward to seeing more if them.

Cheers,

Fred

[Discus-n00b]

Welcome back, I'll echo the others and say they look great!!

[rickztahone]

Welcome back :)

[DiscusBR]

Thank you, everyone. I appreciated it.


Mauro, I have dim-able LEDs and mine will go corral in the corner if it is too bright so experiencing the same as you.
Pat

Thanks for letting me know, Pat. Hopefully it will not take too long before they feel comfortable in their new home.

[YSS]

Congrats, Mauro. Looking good as always! Good luck.

[plecocicho]

Welcome back, beautifull Cuipeas, what are your current water parameters?

[Discus Origins]

Thank you, everyone. I appreciated it.



Thanks for letting me know, Pat. Hopefully it will not take too long before they feel comfortable in their new home.

Mauro,

The discus were under normal T5 flourescent bulbs at my warehouse and all swam around in the open happily. What is the wattage on the LEDs? I do know that LEDs have different par spectrum and actually penetrate the water much deeper than regular lights. Fish may be reacting because it's too bright. Perhaps adding tannins to the water will help.

[DiscusBR]

Congrats, Mauro. Looking good as always! Good luck.

Thank you, Yun.


Welcome back, beautifull Cuipeas, what are your current water parameters?

Thank you. I measured water parameters again today. The tap water here in New Orleans: PH is 8.6 and hardness (TDS) is 268ppm. I am currently using a mix of 72% RO water/28% tap water. The result is a PH of 7.4 and a hardness (TDS) of 91 ppm. I checked ammonia again and found zero. Did not test for nitrites and nitrates.

Feedback about these water parameters is appreciated.


Mauro,

The discus were under normal T5 flourescent bulbs at my warehouse and all swam around in the open happily. What is the wattage on the LEDs? I do know that LEDs have different par spectrum and actually penetrate the water much deeper than regular lights. Fish may be reacting because it's too bright. Perhaps adding tannins to the water will help.

Thank you Mark. The tank has a Marineland Single Bright Fixture (36-48 inches), which results in 600 Lumens. I don't find it strong at all. In fact, Kens Fish's website says this fixture is equivalent to a single tube fluorescent light. I don't think the the light it produces is too bright to a 75g, which is 48 inches long (the fixture itself is 36 inches long). I forgot to mention that the tank is next to the TV and they clearly did not like that. The good news is that today the lights came on and they did not seem to bother, and were swimming around normally. Hopefully they will continue like that.

[Larry Grenier]

Mauro, Fabulous fish, hope to see more pics soon

[Carolina discus]

Great to see you back Mauro!!!!
I was hoping your pair would make it to the Big Easy but things dont always work out the way we want it to. Beautiful group from Mark and we will be following your thread to see what develops!!!! we wish you all the best with your new discus

[DiscusBR]

Great to see you back Mauro!!!!
I was hoping your pair would make it to the Big Easy but things dont always work out the way we want it to. Beautiful group from Mark and we will be following your thread to see what develops!!!! we wish you all the best with your new discus

Thank you, Eric. I was also hoping the pair would make to New Orleans, but the truth is I was not ready to receive them at the time. It is a pleasure to restart with this group. May be I will get more pairs :)


Mauro, Fabulous fish, hope to see more pics soon

Thank you, Larry. Since you requested, here are some pics with my very low quality camera:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/feb15%20006_zpsh3jgzheo.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/feb15%20003_zpscz75ytay.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/Foto1_zps8jo1e5iq.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/Foto2_zpskswwnlph.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/Foto3_zpsaeqqx4cd.jpg

The picture does not make justice to the beautiful red color of this fish:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/feb15%20002_zpsplcyiloa.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/feb15%20004_zps6hnrhgig.jpg

But not all news is good news. If you look close to the anal fin of this last fish, you can see a white spot. As this closer picture shows, it is some kind of cotton-looking tuft:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/feb15%20010_zpst7h2ke9q.jpg

I hope it is not some type of fungal infection. The fish is behaving normally. I will intensify WCs and hopefully it will go away.

[Second Hand Pat]

The fish look great Mauro and that red is really popping. Like you the camera doesn't do the fish justice. Hope the increased WCs do the trick.
Pat

[2013]

Welcome back to the hobby. Love your wild discus

[dpt8]

Mauro, You don't know me but I followed your past threads faithfully. Congrats on your return and great wilds. Keep us updated please.. Thanks.. David

[DiscusBR]

The fish look great Mauro and that red is really popping. Like you the camera doesn't do the fish justice.

Yes, Pat, the camera does not show the actual color of this fish. It looks amazing in person. Here is another pic taken today:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/dd%20005_zpseijguzda.jpg


Hope the increased WCs do the trick.

Will see. Started doing daily WCs. But there are signs of trouble. I lost a corydora today. And one of the Cuipeuas is more lethargic than the others. Hopefully these are not signs of problems to come :(


Welcome back to the hobby. Love your wild discus


Mauro, You don't know me but I followed your past threads faithfully. Congrats on your return and great wilds. Keep us updated please.. Thanks.. David

Thank you. Nice to know some people follow and enjoy the Cuipeuas.

And now a bit of good news. Some of the Cuipeuas went from being skittish to being lustful :) A pair is forming! These two guys are staring at the outake of the canister filter and keeping all other Cuipeuas away in the other side of the tank:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/dd%20001_zpsk6y0ouic.jpg

No quivering or shimming yet, but it looks promising.

[Second Hand Pat]

Lucky dog Mauro. I am trying to trigger mine. Lots of pushing and some nice halos but nothing firm. I spoke to Mark about the age of these fish and he thinks it is possible that the males are young yet. Perhaps you will prove otherwise. :D
Pat

[jmf3460]

Mauro I have a marineland singlebright 36" fixture on my 75 gal 48" tank just like you. I too have new wild fish and I agree that your fixture is not too bright at all. the singlebright is a perfect low light for the wild tank. I agree that you should try some tannins. it will help with the natural antioxidants that your fish need to fight off infection/disease. I use the Rooibos tea with my wild greens that was recommended to me by Pat.

[Discus Origins]

Yes, Pat, the camera does not show the actual color of this fish. It looks amazing in person. Here is another pic taken today:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/dd%20005_zpseijguzda.jpg



Will see. Started doing daily WCs. But there are signs of trouble. I lost a corydora today. And one of the Cuipeuas is more lethargic than the others. Hopefully these are not signs of problems to come :(




Mauro,

What are the tank parameters and how about quality of water in terms of nitrates? I never like to hear anything going on negatively with the fish so definitely want to stay on top of things and make sure to resolve any small issues before they become problems. Is the lethargic discus the lowest one on the totem pole? Has it been an aggressive eater and all of a sudden off its food?

Any details on the corydora? Was it bloated or any damage to the body/fins? Any aggression from discus towards them?

[DiscusBR]

Lucky dog Mauro. I am trying to trigger mine. Lots of pushing and some nice halos but nothing firm. I spoke to Mark about the age of these fish and he thinks it is possible that the males are young yet. Perhaps you will prove otherwise. :D
Pat

It is just the beginning, Pat. My other Cuipeuas took months after these first signs of pairing before they actually started to breed. But it is a relief to see them settling.


Mauro I have a marineland singlebright 36" fixture on my 75 gal 48" tank just like you. I too have new wild fish and I agree that your fixture is not too bright at all. the singlebright is a perfect low light for the wild tank. I agree that you should try some tannins. it will help with the natural antioxidants that your fish need to fight off infection/disease. I use the Rooibos tea with my wild greens that was recommended to me by Pat.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Nice to know you have a similar setup. I might try tannis, but I don't want to add another factor to the mix right now.


Mauro,

What are the tank parameters and how about quality of water in terms of nitrates? I never like to hear anything going on negatively with the fish so definitely want to stay on top of things and make sure to resolve any small issues before they become problems. Is the lethargic discus the lowest one on the totem pole? Has it been an aggressive eater and all of a sudden off its food?

I will test for nitrates tomorrow and will let you know about the results. The lethargic fish is eating, but contrary to the others he expends most of the time in a corner. He is not at the bottom of the pecking order and there isn't too much harassment towards him/her.


Any details on the corydora? Was it bloated or any damage to the body/fins? Any aggression from discus towards them?

No sign of problem at all with the corydora. It looked normal.

[Discus Origins]

As long as it's eating like normal I wouldn't worry too much at this point, when fish are off the food is when red flags go up. It could just be the shy or cautious one of the group.

[XAnhLe]

Oh my... they are so gorgeous. You always have the luck with wilds, already have a pair forming! congrats!

[DiscusBR]

Oh my... they are so gorgeous. You always have the luck with wilds, already have a pair forming! congrats!

Thank you.


As long as it's eating like normal I wouldn't worry too much at this point, when fish are off the food is when red flags go up. It could just be the shy or cautious one of the group.

I don' have good news. The fish that was lethargic just started to dart all around the tank. It did it twice and has some bad scratches on the side. It seems I will end up in the disease section again :(

[winn0923]

uh oh .. darting is not good, my suggestion is to turn off the light for now

[Second Hand Pat]

Darn Mauro, turn off the tank lights for a couple days and feed lightly. Do small WCs. Jacklyn who has some new Tefe is experiencing this also. :(
Pat

[DiscusBR]

uh oh .. darting is not good, my suggestion is to turn off the light for now


Darn Mauro, turn off the tank lights for a couple days and feed lightly. Do small WCs. Jacklyn who has some new Tefe is experiencing this also. :(
Pat

Thank you both. I have switched the lights off. And I have opened a thread in the disease section:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?118695-New-Cuipeua-darting-%28&p=1143623#post1143623

One problem is that I have high levels of nitrate but I am not supposed to do large WCs. It seems I am in conundrum... Please go the other other thread to provide advice if you can.

[Discus Origins]

Thank you both. I have switched the lights off. And I have opened a thread in the disease section:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?118695-New-Cuipeua-darting-%28&p=1143623#post1143623

One problem is that I have high levels of nitrate but I am not supposed to do large WCs. It seems I am in conundrum... Please go the other other thread to provide advice if you can.

Mauro,

Nitrates are definitely too high especially for wilds. Any reason you're not suppose to do large WCs?

[DiscusBR]

Mauro,

Nitrates are definitely too high especially for wilds. Any reason you're not suppose to do large WCs?

I am going to do the WC now. About large WC x darting, see Pat's post #55 above.

[Second Hand Pat]

Mauro, if I recall correctly high nitrates can be a cause for darting.

[2013]

Thank you both. I have switched the lights off. And I have opened a thread in the disease section:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?118695-New-Cuipeua-darting-%28&p=1143623#post1143623

One problem is that I have high levels of nitrate but I am not supposed to do large WCs. It seems I am in conundrum... Please go the other other thread to provide advice if you can.

You may want to try using Japanese yellow power 5g per pack as 1g treat 100 litre of water together with salt as I using 3 to 4 tea spoon per 100 litres at 32 degC. Water change daily 20 percent and re dose the power you have replace. Treatment for 1 week.

[jmf3460]

Mauro, I just sent you a PM, I am experiencing the same thing with little nitrates, so I don't know that Nitrates are the answer. I know exactly (and this time I do mean exactly) what you are going through and I know its hard to watch.

[DiscusBR]

You may want to try using Japanese yellow power 5g per pack as 1g treat 100 litre of water together with salt as I using 3 to 4 tea spoon per 100 litres at 32 degC. Water change daily 20 percent and re dose the power you have replace. Treatment for 1 week.

Thank you for the suggestions. I decided to do more frequent water changes and the results are positive. As I explain in the other thread in the disease section the fish is doing better and there was no darting today.


Mauro, I just sent you a PM, I am experiencing the same thing with little nitrates, so I don't know that Nitrates are the answer. I know exactly (and this time I do mean exactly) what you are going through and I know its hard to watch.

I am sorry to learn you are going through a very similar problem. Yes, it is painful to see the fish darting, but wild discus keepers often have to deal with it. I wish you good luck with your group of greens.

[DiscusBR]

Bad turn of events :( The darting Cuipeua seemed to do better for a few days but started darting again yesterday. Today I decided to cull the fish. Sad day. It was a beautiful Cuipeua and one of the fish that was showing signs of pairing. Now I only hope the other 5 fish will be fine.

[Second Hand Pat]

Really sorry to hear Mauro :(
Pat

[rickztahone]

Sad day Mauro :(

[winn0923]

Sorry to hear man, I feel like with wilds there always a risk with that whirling thing... I experienced the same thing you went thru so I know exactly how that feels, and it's always the nicest one that seem to get it to...

[jmf3460]

Mauro im so sorry you had to cull the fish. Mine is going through a 3 day streak of no spazzing out. If I start seeing it again I will have to make the same decision you did. Good luck and I hope none of the others start showing it.

[Dutch dude]

Sounds like "whirling" and I'm curious at your water change regime. Please dón't cull the fish,...you guy's seen my Lago Amana male right? It almost died 2 times becouse of freaking out/whirling. Later it spawned succesfully after I reduced the percentage of waterchanges to 30% to 40% 2 times a week. It doesn't cost a thing so please try this before culling the fish. Also make sure the water qualety is stable (conductivety between 200 and 300 mS) and please stop adding stuf to the water,...just a mix of tap and RO.

[DiscusBR]

Really sorry to hear Mauro :(
Pat


Sad day Mauro :(


Sorry to hear man, I feel like with wilds there always a risk with that whirling thing... I experienced the same thing you went thru so I know exactly how that feels, and it's always the nicest one that seem to get it to...

Thank you everyone.


Mauro im so sorry you had to cull the fish. Mine is going through a 3 day streak of no spazzing out. If I start seeing it again I will have to make the same decision you did. Good luck and I hope none of the others start showing it.

Thank you, Jacklyn. It is so nice to learn that your fish is doing better. Good luck with your group.


Sounds like "whirling" and I'm curious at your water change regime. Please dón't cull the fish,...you guy's seen my Lago Amana male right? It almost died 2 times becouse of freaking out/whirling. Later it spawned succesfully after I reduced the percentage of waterchanges to 30% to 40% 2 times a week. It doesn't cost a thing so please try this before culling the fish. Also make sure the water qualety is stable (conductivety between 200 and 300 mS) and please stop adding stuf to the water,...just a mix of tap and RO.

I culled the fish already. It was in a very bad shape. As far as my water regime goes, I do two 60% WCs per week. I use a mix of 28% tap / 72% RO, which results in a TDS of 91 ppm. Before the fish started darting I did not add anything to the water. Only today I started a PP treatment.

Just started my first PP bath. I took the driftwood, the sponge filter and the corydoras out of the tank. So far so good. They look fine. I will keep everyone posted about the group is doing.

[DiscusBR]

Update on the PP treatment - Here is how it went: I did a 60% WC to take as much organic matter from the tank as possible and then added PP for a 2ppm solution. One hour and half later, the water started turning brown, suggesting that PP was not active anymore. Added the same dose of PP again. The treatment lasted 4 hours as recommended. I did another 60% WC, using Prime, which is supposed to neutralize PP. The water still looked light orange/yellowish, so I added 3% Hydrogen Peroxide, which neutralizes PP. The water looks almost clear now.

The fish look fine after treatment, although some of them lost some slime coat (normal, right? Did you notice the same Pat?).

And here is a dirty little secret: I am treating not only the 5 remaining Cuipeuas that I got from Mark, but also 2 new Uatuma blues I got from John. I know, I know, no quarentine and it is crazy to add fish in the middle of this mess. But 5 is not a good number and the 2 Cuipeuas at the bottom at the pecking order were not doing well. They were being constantly beaten and were not managing to eat. Moreover, Mark was not getting more red wilds from WB Sabby this season and John had only a few Uatumas left, so I decided I could not wait.

If things go wrong, I am the only one responsible...

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Mauro, glad the fish seem fine after the PP treatment. During the treatment when my water went to brown I dosed enough to bring the water to a purple color which for me was about 25% of the full strength treatment or about 35 drops (140 drops for full treatment). My guys did not lose any slime coat.

BTW, one fish started darting last night so I will do a PP treatment today (which makes one every 48 hours) and begin the formalin tomorrow. Mauro, if you decide to use formalin make sure the water is free of any PP or Hydrogen Peroxide so a 90% WC prior to adding the formalin (directions from Al).

[DiscusBR]

Hi Mauro, glad the fish seem fine after the PP treatment. During the treatment when my water went to brown I dosed enough to bring the water to a purple color which for me was about 25% of the full strength treatment or about 35 drops (140 drops for full treatment). My guys did not lose any slime coat.

BTW, one fish started darting last night so I will do a PP treatment today (which makes one every 48 hours) and begin the formalin tomorrow. Mauro, if you decide to use formalin make sure the water is free of any PP or Hydrogen Peroxide so a 90% WC prior to adding the formalin (directions from Al).

Thank you, Pat. The fish looked very well today in the morning, with good colors and appetite. I hope my relatively strong re-dose of PP will not have any negative effects. I am planning one more PP treatment and then formalin.

I am very sorry to hear that darting continues. Good luck with treatment. By the say, which formalin product will you be using?

[Second Hand Pat]

That is great news Mauro :D I ordered mine here http://www.petsolutions.com/C/External-Parasite-Ich-Fish-Medications/I/Formalin-MS.aspx and got the 16 oz size. Expedited shipping was only $3 extra.

[Keith Perkins]

If your fish shed slime coat I'd say you overdid the PP a bit. If they're showing no ill effects now from it IME with domestics they're probably fine and you likely really knocked the $#$! out of any bacteria you had in the tank. Here's hoping the PP does the trick for you.

[DiscusBR]

That is great news Mauro :D I ordered mine here http://www.petsolutions.com/C/External-Parasite-Ich-Fish-Medications/I/Formalin-MS.aspx and got the 16 oz size. Expedited shipping was only $3 extra.

Thank you, Pat. I have ordered it!


If your fish shed slime coat I'd say you overdid the PP a bit. If they're showing no ill effects now from it IME with domestics they're probably fine and you likely really knocked the $#$! out of any bacteria you had in the tank. Here's hoping the PP does the trick for you.

Thank you, Keith. Let me be more precise with what happened. I actually could not see the fish very well after the PP treatment yesterday, since the tank light was off and only the room light was on. I noticed that one fish had shed some slime and when doing the WC I could see floating stuff that I assumed to be slime from the Cuipeua. However, it could have been other organic staff affected by the PP treatment. So I actually did not see much change in the fish. Anyway, they look good today, which is a relief.

[DiscusBR]

By the way, what is the effect of PP and formalin on biological filtration? Will they kill the beneficial bacteria in my canister filter? Should I switch the canister off for 4 hours during treatment?

[Keith Perkins]

At recommended doses I've never had PP bother my biological filtration. I've gone as far a double the recommended dose in fact to keep water purple and not bombed my biological. QuickCure didn't hit my biological filtration either, though I don't know about straight up formalin.

[Discus Origins]

Formalin is very harsh on beneficial bacteria, I would keep an eye on your cycle.

[Keith Perkins]

Formalin is very harsh on beneficial bacteria, I would keep an eye on your cycle.

Definitely filing that one away for future reference.

[DiscusBR]

Formalin is very harsh on beneficial bacteria, I would keep an eye on your cycle.

Thank you, Mark. What about using formalin for a dip treatment, instead of using it in the whole tank?

[Discus Origins]

Mauro, as we don't really know what kind of pathogens are causing this whirling/darting problem it would be best to make sure that the tank is cleansed.

[jimg]

If the pp treatment went as it should, it should have stripped the slime coat, that is the intent of using it, so that is normal. I am not one who believes pp is a good or effective treatment for discus. I would do 2 qc treatments (never bothered bio for me) then metro 1/4 tsp per 20 for 2 weeks. major wc then re-dose every day. then repeat in 2 weeks. I have had them dart around like that. after this treatment they would be fine for quite awhile like 6 mos+- then it always seemed to return. If it returns after this type of treatment cull them.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Jim, what would you suggest of the cause of the darting seemed to be caused by an external source?..ie fish are flashing prior to the outset of the actual darting.
Pat

[jimg]

Hi Pat I believe it is exterior but anytime i have just done the qc most times white feces would follow or the flashing would return in a week or so. the times I have done both i have had the longest lasting results. I would figure that the external pathogen stress the fish and the flagellates get to take advantage. could also be that the metro takes care of what ever external is bothering them. never really figured it out to say for sure. whatever it is, it never seems to bother other fish in the tank. i have some browns that were in with the ones I ended up culling and they have been fine for 2-3 years now. it did seem to also effect one fish at a time. maybe just only effect the weakest fish?

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, as we don't really know what kind of pathogens are causing this whirling/darting problem it would be best to make sure that the tank is cleansed.

Thank you mark, that makes sense. I will treat the whole tank.

Thank you also Jim for sharing your experience. I will try the formalin treatment, but if it does not work I will try the QC and Metro treatment that you suggest.

I did the second PP treatment yesterday. The fish looked good after it, with great colors, even the new Uatuma blues. But they are quite skittish today and are getting easily scared, with quick and short darts. I got formalin today and I will start treatment tomorrow. I will post the results.

[Second Hand Pat]

Sounds good Mauro. We will lick this thing at this rate.
Pat

[Disgirl]

Hi Mauro, welcome back, sorry to be late here, lots going on in my life right now and little online time. I wish your fish well, you too!
Barb

[rubinsteinnyc]

some food for thought,

google OXINE AH at very low concentrations might work, using it on my pigeons, people have used it on poultry, stock, koi fish
( do not use CITRIC ACID)

[DiscusBR]

Sounds good Mauro. We will lick this thing at this rate.
Pat

I am late with the formalin treatment, Pat. But hopefully I will manage to defeat this thing.


Hi Mauro, welcome back, sorry to be late here, lots going on in my life right now and little online time. I wish your fish well, you too!
Barb

Thank you, Barb. One of your cones is already in the tank, for when they are ready :)


some food for thought,

google OXINE AH at very low concentrations might work, using it on my pigeons, people have used it on poultry, stock, koi fish
( do not use CITRIC ACID)

Thank you. If formalin does not solve I will do more research on that.

An update: I have been too busy with work and family lately and did not have time to start the formalin treatment. The fish seemed to be doing very well after two rounds of PP treatment, but started again scratching against the driftwood and shaking their fins. So today I finally started with formalin, following Pat's suggested procedures: 1ml per 10 gallons, with daily WCs, and retreatment after the third day. Fingers crossed.

[Second Hand Pat]

Sounds good Mauro. I would suggest three treatments total. My fish completed their treatment two nights ago and they are doing very well and my two darters have returned to normal. No more rubbing, flashing etc.

[DiscusBR]

Sounds good Mauro. I would suggest three treatments total. My fish completed their treatment two nights ago and they are doing very well and my two darters have returned to normal. No more rubbing, flashing etc.

Thank you, Pat. Will do that. And it is wonderful to know your wilds are doing well.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thank you, Pat. Will do that. And it is wonderful to know your wilds are doing well.

Thanks Mauro :)

[DiscusBR]

Time for an update and a new video. The 5 Cuipeuas and the 2 Uatuma Reds have been through two rounds of PP treatment and one round of formalin. Despite the medication, the Uatuma Reds are settling very quickly and are already very colorful. I made a new video tonight, right before the second formalin treatment:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfwwnz-VrUk

I have added a few subtitles to identify some of the discus. Please let me know if it is not working.

[Second Hand Pat]

Mauro, the fish look great. :D The subtitles did not seem to work.
Pat

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, the fish look great. :D The subtitles did not seem to work.
Pat

Thank you, Pat. The subtitles should work now. By the way, if anyone wants to know how to force Youtube captions to be turned on, here is a video that explains how:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsTrcipKBcg

[DiscusBR]

News from today: I came home for lunch to find one Cuipeua and one Uatuma shimming and cleaning a spot in the driftwood. They do it on and off, but seem to be to a good start.

Problems are not over yet, however. As you may recall, I had two Cuipeuas start pairing few weeks ago just to loose one of them due to the swirling disease. Yesterday I finished the second formalin treatment following Pat's recommended dosage and procedures (treatment, followed by two-day-break, followed by second treatment, with daily WCs). However, after two rounds of PP and two rounds of formalin the discus are still scratching against the wood and the substrate, with short and brief darting. What should I do? A third round of formalin? Should I increase the dosage (right not, 1 ml per 10g of a 3% formalin solution)?

[Second Hand Pat]

Mauro, stay the course. I saw the same things you're seeing at the point you are at right now. Except for the pairing behavior :)
Pat

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, stay the course. I saw the same things you're seeing at the point you are at right now. Except for the pairing behavior :)
Pat

Great, will do that. Just saw your previous post recommending three treatments with formalin. I will try one more round and hopefully it will do it.

[DiscusBR]

I just took a video of the Cuipeua and Uatuma Red pair shimming, dancing and cleaning a spot in the driftwood: :bounce2:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bax4JXf5UEk

[Second Hand Pat]

Darn it Maruo, I'm jealous :D:D

[DiscusBR]

Darn it Maruo, I'm jealous :D:D

Jealous? You are the queen of wild discus breeding! But thank you anyway :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey Mauro, i'm trying like mad to get my Cuipeua into breeding mode. What TDS are you keeping your fish it? I have my guys in the mid 30s.
Pat

[DiscusBR]

Hey Mauro, i'm trying like mad to get my Cuipeua into breeding mode. What TDS are you keeping your fish it? I have my guys in the mid 30s.
Pat

I use a 72% RO / 28% tap mix. The result is a PH of 7.4 and a TDS of 91 ppm. Temperature is 84 F (29C).

[DiscusBR]

I have news :) Pictures coming soon (I have to charge the camera's battery).

[Second Hand Pat]

I have news :) Pictures coming soon (I have to charge the camera's battery).

You have a spawn Mauro?? :D:D

[DiscusBR]

Suspense :drummer:

[Second Hand Pat]

Suspense :drummer:

Boo :p

[DiscusBR]

Sorry everyone, but I can't get my crappy camera to focus. Something wrong (I have to get a decent camera ASAP). Anyway, I got a spawn in the driftwood. Let's wait and see if the pair is confirmed. Just wanted to share the news.

[Second Hand Pat]

That is awesome Mauro and congrats. It would be amazing to get some fry from these Cuipeua.

I started to raise my TDS. We shall see if that helps.

[DiscusBR]

That is awesome Mauro and congrats. It would be amazing to get some fry from these Cuipeua.

Thank you, Pat. Yes, that would be terrific. But remember, it is a Cuipeua/Uatuma pair :)


I started to raise my TDS. We shall see if that helps.

Good luck. I hope TDS will do the trick.

[DiscusBR]

What to do next? I was supposed to do a third formalin treatment, but I guess I will postpone that. Hold on water changes? Do small ones?

[Second Hand Pat]

Mauro, it is better to complete the treatment. They will spawn again?

[Keith Perkins]

Mauro, it is better to complete the treatment. They will spawn again?

It's tough to do the right thing sometimes, but also hard to argue with the wild whisperer.

[jmf3460]

agree, healthy fish are more important than a spawn right now. especially when you're not 100% they are confirmed and its their first time and may end up eating them anyway. Finish formalin is my vote, and congrats on the spawn. I on the other hand, have turned all wooden pieces horizontal in hopes of discouraging a spawn. If I see two fish staring at a piece of wood, I rearrange it at the next w/c.

[DiscusBR]

Thank you, everyone. I woke up this morning to find that the eggs were gone, so that simplifies the decision. I am in no hurry to breed them, in fact I am not ready, so it is fine to postpone it for later. I did a WC and started the third formalin treatment. Hopefully the scratching and short darting will stop.

[DiscusBR]

Right after ending the third round of the formalin treatment, I have one Cuipeua-Uatuma pair in one side staring at the driftwood and another Cuipeua-Uatuma pair in the other side staring at intake of the canister filter :) No shimming or spot cleaning yet though.

These Uatumas Reds are quite horny :) Less than 3 weeks in the tank and they are already pairing with the Cuipeuas.

The bad news is that they continue scratching against the driftwood and other objects. Should I try a fourth formalin treatment if this continues?

[brewmaster15]

Mauro,
what kind of media is in your filters?
al

[DiscusBR]

Mauro,
what kind of media is in your filters?
al

I have an Eheim 2217 with the original media (with the exception of the carbon pad) and one sponge filter.

[Discus Origins]

Mauro, is this the third formalin treatment with the Uatuma in the tank?

Also remember water quality issues could also trigger the scratching behavior. Are you keeping up with water parameters and testing during the formalin treatments?

[brewmaster15]

Mauro,

do you use any water treatments for your water? Dechlorinators?

al

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, is this the third formalin treatment with the Uatuma in the tank?

Yes


Also remember water quality issues could also trigger the scratching behavior. Are you keeping up with water parameters and testing during the formalin treatments?

I have not been testing the water parameters because I have been doing daily 60% WCs. I will test the water tomorrow just before the WC to make sure I don't have ammonia, nitrite or high nitrate.


Mauro,

do you use any water treatments for your water? Dechlorinators?

al

I treat the water with Prime right before the WC.

[brewmaster15]

Mauro, thats probably why this issue is ongoing. PP definetly interacts with dechlors and formalin most likely does as well. Im guessing you probably neutralized the PP before it was entirely effective..same for the formalin.

Al

[DiscusBR]

So I tested the parameters right before the daily 60% WC: PH 7.4, ammonia zero, nitrite zero, nitrate 5.0 ppm. Nothing seems to be wrong with the water parameters.


Mauro, thats probably why this issue is ongoing. PP definetly interacts with dechlors and formalin most likely does as well. Im guessing you probably neutralized the PP before it was entirely effective..same for the formalin.

Al

Thank you Al. I knew that Prime neutralizes PP, so before the PP treatments this is what I did. I use a mix of 28% tap water / 72% RO water. To make sure that I would not introduce any chlorine in the tank, I used half a dose of API tap conditioner, not Prime, in the WC container. I assumed that a regular tap conditioner in half dose would not neutralize PP. Am I wrong? How to you take chlorine out of the water used for WCs during a PP treatment?

Now, I had no idea that Prime also neutralizes formalin. I have been using a full dose of Prime to treat the water for WCs. What do I need to do to make sure I do not introduce chlorine in the tank during treatments with PP or formalin?

[brewmaster15]

PP and Formalin are very reactive.... You can test whether the API tap conditioner neutralize the PP.. my guess is it does..Take some water, add some APi Conditioner and add a drop or two of your stock PP solution. IF it turns brown its reacting... If it stays pink for several hours its probably okay.

Your best bet is to use straight RO and reconstitute with something like R/o right. You can also filter thru carbon if its just chlorine and aerate well.

al

[DiscusBR]

PP and Formalin are very reactive.... You can test whether the API tap conditioner neutralize the PP.. my guess is it does..Take some water, add some APi Conditioner and add a drop or two of your stock PP solution. IF it turns brown its reacting... If it stays pink for several hours its probably okay.

Thank you, Al. When I did the PP treatment the water stayed pink for about 1.5 hour and I redosed after that. I assume PP was not neutralized by the API conditioner. I am not planning to treat with PP again any time soon.


Your best bet is to use straight RO and reconstitute with something like R/o right.

That is a possibility, but I did not want to mess up with the water, especially after getting one spawn and another pair forming.




You can also filter thru carbon if its just chlorine and aerate well.

al

That is a possibility. But how do people treat their fish and keep up with daily WCs from tap water?

[jimg]

with the amount of tap you use there is no reason to need to dechlor.

[zchauvin]

Mauro, I forgot that you are now staying in New Orleans. I travel to Laplace ( about twenty minutes away) every other weekend. Perhaps we could meet some time!

[DiscusBR]

with the amount of tap you use there is no reason to need to dechlor.

Thank you, Jim. I have doing WCs with no Prime or conditioner and the fish were fine. So I restarted the formalin treatment. Today I did the second round of formalin.


Mauro, I forgot that you are now staying in New Orleans. I travel to Laplace ( about twenty minutes away) every other weekend. Perhaps we could meet some time!

It would be a pleasure to meet. PM sent.

So, came home tonight to find a few eggs in the driftwood. It appears the pair spawn again today and ate most of the eggs. This is impressive because few days ago the Cuipeua in the pair was not doing well, getting quite dark. But today she was attending the few eggs left with good colors.

[brewmaster15]

Hope it continues to improve Mauro!:)
Al

[zchauvin]

Had a great visit with Mauro today, fish look great regardless of the treatment. Didn't get to see any spawning action unfortunately but it was a pleasure. Pictures do no justice for his fish, they are stunning to say the least.

[DiscusBR]

Hi Zach, it was a pleasure to meet you. I hope to see you again soon. I am glad you enjoyed the fish.

[Second Hand Pat]

Cool you two were able to get to meet. It is always fun meeting a fellow SD member :D
Pat

[DiscusBR]

Cool you two were able to get to meet. It is always fun meeting a fellow SD member :D
Pat

Exactly! I had a great time and conversation. I hope I will come to NADA next year to meet more members of the SD gang.

[Second Hand Pat]

Exactly! I had a great time and conversation. I hope I will come to NADA next year to meet more members of the SD gang.

Hope you will to Mauro. I promise you will have a blast :D
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Nice you guys got to meet.Its one of the things I like best about SD...the chance to meet up with great people of similar interests..priceless in a hobby.
al

[zchauvin]

Mauro, any more spawning activity?

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, any more spawning activity?

No new developments. Both pairs continue to focus on one of the sides of the tank, but no shimming or spot-cleaning lately. Which is understandable, since I have just finished the third formalin treatment (this time with no water conditioner).

One of the fish is still scratching against objects, with short darts, while the others seem to be doing well. Should I do a fourth formalin treatment? Should I increase the dose? I have been using the dose recommended by Pat: 1ml for 10g. This is already stronger than the dose recommended by the manufacturer. Any suggestions?

[zchauvin]

No clue on that one Mauro, haven't had discus in quiet some time and when I did I think I only had a disease issue once and it came down to simple table salt added to the water.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Mauro, I would not do a fourth treatment or higher dosage. The dosage recommendation is from the University of Florida BTW. Mine would still dart and I realized it was me walking into and out of a bit of sunlight coming in the window so you might look for other triggers.
Pat

[jmf3460]

Mauro, what is TDS in your tank. My original darting stopped once I lowered the TDS...

[brewmaster15]

Mauro,
I would consider a salt dip for that one fish.

al

[DiscusBR]

No clue on that one Mauro, haven't had discus in quiet some time and when I did I think I only had a disease issue once and it came down to simple table salt added to the water.


Mauro,
I would consider a salt dip for that one fish.

al

Thank you. The fish looks better lately. If the scratching and short darting return I will try the salt dip path.


Hi Mauro, I would not do a fourth treatment or higher dosage. The dosage recommendation is from the University of Florida BTW. Mine would still dart and I realized it was me walking into and out of a bit of sunlight coming in the window so you might look for other triggers.
Pat

That makes sense, Pat. No new treatment, especially because they look better. And you are right, sometimes they dart just because something triggers it in the room. I will keep an eye on them.


Mauro, what is TDS in your tank. My original darting stopped once I lowered the TDS...

My TDS is 91 ppm.

Now some good news. Came home for lunch today and found this: one Cuipeua-Uatuma pair on the left shimming and cleaning a spot in the driftwood and one Cuipeua-Uatuma pair on the right shimming and cleaning a spot in the breeding cone. Here is the video. Sorry for the shaking camera (had to keep a distance not to disturb) and for the reflections in the glass.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JoQW0uRACY

[DiscusBR]

A quick update: I couldn't resist, changed my plans and went home before a work dinner. I came to find a spawn in the driftwood and no eggs in the breeding cone. But then, WOW!! I have never seen that! The two parents were attending the eggs and then 3 Cuipeuas started to violently attack the eggs. Total war, the parents doing all they can to protect, the other Cuipeuas forcing their way to attack the eggs. In the process one of the parents became very, very dark. In my previous experience with 7 Cuipeuas in a 80g tank I also had two pairs breeding at the same time. But I never saw other discus attack another pair's eggs. Poor parents, I really feel sorry for them. In the past, folks recommended not putting a divider in the tank, so not to disturb the pair. But it seems clear that I should put a divider protecting this pair ASAP. Any takes?

[zchauvin]

Mauro I think it's time to make that other tank into a BB breeding tank ;) congrats on the spawn

Video is private btw

[Second Hand Pat]

First congrats on the two pairs Mauro and sorry about the egg warfare. I have never seen that behavior...weird.
Pat

[DiscusBR]

Mauro I think it's time to make that other tank into a BB breeding tank ;) congrats on the spawn

Thank you, Zach. That is not a bad idea :)


Video is private btw

I checked the video settings and it says public. Anyone else having difficulties to see the video?


First congrats on the two pairs Mauro and sorry about the egg warfare. I have never seen that behavior...weird.
Pat

Thank you, Pat. Yes, that is really weird. Has anyone else seen this?

[brewmaster15]

I have seen pairs fight over the eggs and in the process eggs get destroyed but never attack them directly...generally the parenting instinct in a pair is to protect eggs...thats why we can easily foster eggs on pairs. Its probably why I was able to foster angelfish eggs on Discus pairs. Its also been shown many times that cichlids will steal others eggs and fry to raise.

I'D like to think the eggs were a casualty of pair competition...not a direct assault....But I guess its possible.

Al

[jmf3460]

dang Mauro, sorry about the war. I think it is clear that you need to separate the pair to their own tank, and if you don't want spawns then you need to turn wood horizontal and remove the cone. Are you trying to raise babies or have a show tank I cant figure that out.

[DiscusBR]

I have seen pairs fight over the eggs and in the process eggs get destroyed but never attack them directly...generally the parenting instinct in a pair is to protect eggs...thats why we can easily foster eggs on pairs. Its probably why I was able to foster angelfish eggs on Discus pairs. Its also been shown many times that cichlids will steal others eggs and fry to raise.

I'D like to think the eggs were a casualty of pair competition...not a direct assault....But I guess its possible.

Al

Thank you, Al. Just to clarify: the pair that spawned in the driftwood, and which appears in the beginning of the video, did not attack the eggs. They tried hard to defend them. Three other Cuipeuas attacked the eggs, trying to eat them (only 10 or so eggs survived, btw). One of the three attacking discus is the Cuipeua from the other pair, which appears in the video cleaning the breeding cone. Thus, the 3 other fish were not trying to fight over the eggs, they were trying to eat them! I have never seen or heard about that. It was a quite violent battle.


dang Mauro, sorry about the war. I think it is clear that you need to separate the pair to their own tank, and if you don't want spawns then you need to turn wood horizontal and remove the cone. Are you trying to raise babies or have a show tank I cant figure that out.

Thank you, Jacklyn. I might try to set up a different tank for this pair. I was not planning to raise babies right now, but it is such a pleasure to breed discus that I cannot resist the temptation :)

I assume the link to video is working, right?

[Ryan]

I see the egg attacking behavior in angelfish all the time, Mauro. Unpaired angels will wait until a pair is distracted by something and then rush in to quickly eat as many of the eggs as they can. It's weird how little things trigger them to do so. I had a pair of angels spawn in my 150 growout and they were doing a good job of defending them, but as soon as I walked in the room and clicked on the tank lights, the unpaired angels all swarmed in and the eggs were gone in a matter of seconds. I've not seen this in discus but it's definitely commonplace in other related New World cichlids.

Congratulations on the spawning, though. It certainly didn't take them long to settle in and get comfortable.

[DiscusBR]

I see the egg attacking behavior in angelfish all the time, Mauro. Unpaired angels will wait until a pair is distracted by something and then rush in to quickly eat as many of the eggs as they can. It's weird how little things trigger them to do so. I had a pair of angels spawn in my 150 growout and they were doing a good job of defending them, but as soon as I walked in the room and clicked on the tank lights, the unpaired angels all swarmed in and the eggs were gone in a matter of seconds. I've not seen this in discus but it's definitely commonplace in other related New World cichlids.

Congratulations on the spawning, though. It certainly didn't take them long to settle in and get comfortable.

Thank you for the congrats and all the info, Ryan. It happened like you described. I walked in the room and the fish got a bit excited, as always, with the expectation of food. That excitement somehow triggered the attack. I had never seen that. Almost all eggs were gone in a matter of seconds. It is interesting that 24 hours later the pair is still attending to the eggs, even though there are so few left. It would be nice to get a few wigglers just to confirm the pair.

[Discus Origins]

Wow very interesting behavior...I haven't seen this in person either but usually separated out my wild pairs soon after they show pairing activity. Wonder if this happens in the wild too

[DiscusBR]

The second pair has spawned :bounce: :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WebOTnNiW80

It is now confirmed that the smaller Uatuma Red (the fish in the beginning of the video) is the female and the bigger Cuipeua is the male. Beautiful couple, don't you think? :) It is quite a big batch of eggs. This might not work because they are quite young. The female is one of the smallest in the tank. While spawning, she would go back and forth between the breeding cone and the intake of the canister filter. She laid a few eggs there, which the male has ignored. Right now he is attending to the big batch of eggs in the cone and she is attending to the few eggs in the filter's intake. Some confusion here :) I guess it is part of the learning curve for new couples (who knew everything the first time? :) ).

This is quite impressive because I got the Cuipeuas 10 weeks ago and the Uatumas 5 weeks ago. All this after I lost one Cuipeua for whirling disease and had to go through a round of PP treatment and and one round of formalin treatment. Quite fast adaptation. And quite an excitement...

[rickztahone]

wow, that male is huge!

[Second Hand Pat]

They are a gorgeous pair Mauro and you deserve this with the move and all. :D I really hope they confirm themselves with this spawn.
Pat

[Discus Origins]

Very nice Mauro!! Beautiful fish doing their thing.....wilds are very resilient as we can all see :)

[Keith Perkins]

Sure hope the second pair fairs better with their eggs than the first pair did Mauro. Maybe that big boy can scare off the other scoundrels in the tank.

[DiscusBR]

wow, that male is huge!

Yep :)


They are a gorgeous pair Mauro and you deserve this with the move and all. :D I really hope they confirm themselves with this spawn.
Pat

Thank you, Pat. Fingers crossed.


Very nice Mauro!! Beautiful fish doing their thing.....wilds are very resilient as we can all see :)

Thank you, Mark. They are tough, even though sometimes seem to fall ill so easily.


Sure hope the second pair fairs better with their eggs than the first pair did Mauro. Maybe that big boy can scare off the other scoundrels in the tank.

Thank you, Keith. I also hope that the male will be able to defend the eggs. By the way, he was one of the three Cuipeuas attacking the eggs from the other pair.

Hours after the spawning the male continues to attend the eggs in the cone and the female continues attending the few eggs in the intake of the canister. Has anyone have a female lay eggs in two different spots at the same time and get confused like this one?

[Disgirl]

What a great video Mauro! Good luck with the spawn!
Barb

[jmf3460]

great video, stunning pair. good luck I hope they confirm.

[zchauvin]

Awesome news Mauro, I hope you found a place for the plants.. I see some grow outs coming sooner than later

[plecocicho]

Well, every tragedy has a silver lining they say, you dont have a lining, you have a silver lode. Congrats, now you know, why they attacked the other eggs, to elimanate rivals.

[DiscusBR]

What a great video Mauro! Good luck with the spawn!
Barb

Thank you, Barb. As you can see in the video below, I need that cone that I have ordered from you ASAP :)


great video, stunning pair. good luck I hope they confirm.

Thank you, Jacklyn.


Awesome news Mauro, I hope you found a place for the plants.. I see some grow outs coming sooner than later

Thank you, Zach. I am trying to donate all the fish and plants in the other tank but strangely enough nobody is interested. I will move one of the pairs to that tank ASAP.


Well, every tragedy has a silver lining they say, you dont have a lining, you have a silver lode. Congrats, now you know, why they attacked the other eggs, to elimanate rivals.

Thank you. Yes, there is clearly a rivalry in the tank, as the next video shows.

So came home to see a third spawn in the driftwood from the other pair. So I currently have two pairs breeding in the same tank. The video starts with the pair that spawned in the breeding cone. As you can see in the beginning of the video, the male continues to attend the eggs in the cone, while the female is in a corner attending to the few eggs that she laid in the intake of the canister filter. She comes out of the corner at the end of the video. The video also shows the pair that spawned in the driftwood. It is a small spawn, possibly due to lack of space. I have already ordered a second breeding cone from Barb :) Here is the video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmlWEgnwxFQ

The poor other three Cuipeuas congregate in the middle of the tank and are being beaten back and fourth by the two pairs :)

[jmf3460]

I have to ask Mauro and I do mean this with a respectable tone in my voice. Why are you putting the other three discus through this beating? Why have you not separated the pairs yet? You watched a brutal fight last week over eggs in which luckily no one got hurt or killed and you did nothing then, and now here we go again and you do nothing. I am sorry but I just don't get it, you have had nothing but drama with this tank between the diseases and now the pairings and fights but you continue to let everyone be in the same tank when I think its clear that 2 pairs need to be separated into their own tanks. obviously you are encouraging breeding, if you are putting cones in and ordering more but you don't make the arrangements for the pairs to breed in safety. please don't think I am trying to be harsh, I just want to understand why you have such beautiful expensive fish and are risking their health by not doing a simple fix of separating the pairs.

[zchauvin]

I have to ask Mauro and I do mean this with a respectable tone in my voice. Why are you putting the other three discus through this beating? Why have you not separated the pairs yet? You watched a brutal fight last week over eggs in which luckily no one got hurt or killed and you did nothing then, and now here we go again and you do nothing. I am sorry but I just don't get it, you have had nothing but drama with this tank between the diseases and now the pairings and fights but you continue to let everyone be in the same tank when I think its clear that 2 pairs need to be separated into their own tanks. obviously you are encouraging breeding, if you are putting cones in and ordering more but you don't make the arrangements for the pairs to breed in safety. please don't think I am trying to be harsh, I just want to understand why you have such beautiful expensive fish and are risking their health by not doing a simple fix of separating the pairs.

He is.. Which is why he said he's trying to re home the inhabitants of his other tank?

[DiscusBR]

I have to ask Mauro and I do mean this with a respectable tone in my voice. Why are you putting the other three discus through this beating? Why have you not separated the pairs yet? You watched a brutal fight last week over eggs in which luckily no one got hurt or killed and you did nothing then, and now here we go again and you do nothing. I am sorry but I just don't get it, you have had nothing but drama with this tank between the diseases and now the pairings and fights but you continue to let everyone be in the same tank when I think its clear that 2 pairs need to be separated into their own tanks. obviously you are encouraging breeding, if you are putting cones in and ordering more but you don't make the arrangements for the pairs to breed in safety. please don't think I am trying to be harsh, I just want to understand why you have such beautiful expensive fish and are risking their health by not doing a simple fix of separating the pairs.

Hi Jacklyn, no problem at all raising the issue. Certainly, it would be better to give breeding pairs their own tanks. However, there are several issues that make that difficult. Obviously, time, space and resources. I live in a tiny apartment and I don't have the space for several tanks. After spending so much money with these beautiful wilds, I am also broken :) Finally, I am quite busy at work and I cannot devote attention to several tanks, including the possibility of having several grow out tanks. And as I mentioned and as Zach reiterates, I am trying to donate fish and plants that I have in a 48g to move one of the pairs there.

But there is another issue. Aggression is absolutely normal among discus. Don't you have a struggle among your greens to establish a pecking order? Some fish will be at the bottom of that order. If they are not too stressed and if they are eating, there is no need to take action. None of the 3 Cuipeuas that are being "beaten" back and forth are lethargic or showing signs of stress. Moreover, having pairs in a tank with other discus, especially when they are young, works to strengthen the bound between pairs.

I hope that explains better the situation.

[jmf3460]

Hi Jacklyn, no problem at all raising the issue. Certainly, it would be better to give breeding pairs their own tanks. However, there are several issues that make that difficult. Obviously, time, space and resources. I live in a tiny apartment and I don't have the space for several tanks. After spending so much money with these beautiful wilds, I am also broken :) Finally, I am quite busy at work and I cannot devote attention to several tanks, including the possibility of having several grow out tanks. And as I mentioned and as Zach reiterates, I am trying to donate fish and plants that I have in a 48g to move one of the pairs there.

But there is another issue. Aggression is absolutely normal among discus. Don't you have a struggle among your greens to establish a pecking order? Some fish will be at the bottom of that order. If they are not too stressed and if they are eating, there is no need to take action. None of the 3 Cuipeuas that are being "beaten" back and forth are lethargic or showing signs of stress. Moreover, having pairs in a tank with other discus, especially when they are young, works to strengthen the bound between pairs.

I hope that explains better the situation.

It does, and I did not realize that you were trying to empty the 48. I guess for me, it would make me panic to much to see them being so aggressive and I would try every effort for them to not spawn like removing the cone and turning the wood horizontal. But to each his own. I just don't understand if you don't have the means, with work, an apartment, time and money then why are you encouraging spawning activity?

[DiscusBR]

It does, and I did not realize that you were trying to empty the 48. I guess for me, it would make me panic to much to see them being so aggressive and I would try every effort for them to not spawn like removing the cone and turning the wood horizontal. But to each his own. I just don't understand if you don't have the means, with work, an apartment, time and money then why are you encouraging spawning activity?

Hi Jacklyn, you are giving too much importance to one breeding cone. When discus want to spawn they will spawn. If the wood is horizontal and there is no breeding cone, they will spawn in the intake of the canister filter. As you know, the female that I caught on tape laying eggs in the cone also laid eggs in the filter's intake and is currently attending to them. They will also spawn in the tank's glass. Besides, I do want to breed these wilds at some point. The first step if to form pairs. This can take time, especially with young fish. The fact that they have laid eggs does not mean that I have a confirmed pair. May be I have two females or may be the male has not learned yet how to fertilize the eggs. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I will know I have a pair only when I get wigglers. That has not happened yet.

I do want to breed these wilds and eventually raise one batch of juvies. Watching how discus lay eggs, how gently they tend to their fry and how they develop from tiny creatures to these full-grown beauties has been the most rewarding experience I have had in the hobby. To come to that point you need patience, letting them settle, pair up and strengthen the bond between the pair.

[jmf3460]

Mauro, you have wayyy more patience than I. Good luck, I hope a pair forms and I can one day purchase some fry from you.

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, you have wayyy more patience than I. Good luck, I hope a pair forms and I can one day purchase some fry from you.

Thank you, Jacklyn. I would not know how to ship fish but who knows, may be one day...

Another update: On Sunday the fish were quite lethargic and some were darker than usual. I went to check and the temperature was 78F. It turns out that my new Hydor inline heater had died. I called Hydor and they want me to ship the heater for repairs or replacement. Bummer...

I replaced the heater and the fish are much better. In fact, the pair that is breading in the driftwood has spawned again today. And again other discus are attacking the eggs. I need to transfer them or put a divider in the tank ASAP. The other pair is currently cleaning the intake of the canister filter.

I have finally donated the fish that were in my other 48g tank so that I can transfer one of pairs there. I am waiting for some equipment to arrive so that I can do it this weekend. Hopefully the pair will finally have the conditions to spawn in peace.

[Keith Perkins]

Mauro, I think I'd put a sponge over that intake to discourage the second pair from wanting to spawn there.

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, I think I'd put a sponge over that intake to discourage the second pair from wanting to spawn there.

Any particular reason to be concerned if they do spawn there?

[zchauvin]

Good to hear Mauro, I always use Eheim heaters as they are normally more reliable and it's always good to have two in tank. Hope your ready to change a lot more water much more often ;)

[Keith Perkins]

Any particular reason to be concerned if they do spawn there?

I'm always afraid the current will raise heck with the fertilization and the chance of the fry later ending up going into the intake. In retrospect, perhaps not that big of a deal.

[DiscusBR]

Good to hear Mauro, I always use Eheim heaters as they are normally more reliable and it's always good to have two in tank. Hope your ready to change a lot more water much more often ;)

Will see, hopefully are are right.


I'm always afraid the current will raise heck with the fertilization and the chance of the fry later ending up going into the intake. In retrospect, perhaps not that big of a deal.

Oh, I see. In this case it is not a big deal because I have a prefilter sponge in the intake of the canister.

[rickztahone]

Poor move on Hydors part. You are actually the first person I have ever heard that had a problem with a heater.

[DiscusBR]

Poor move on Hydors part. You are actually the first person I have ever heard that had a problem with a heater.

Really? I have read several threads here reporting problems with heaters.

Bad development. I was going to bed when there was a huge commotion in the tank. The discus started darting again :(

Oh well... I will start a new round of formalin treatment tomorrow, unless you guys have a different advice.

[jimg]

congratulations on 2 pairs!! hope you get some to grow out. as for the darting again. I would go with the metro I stated awhile ago.

[Mapet]

Metro or formalin not help, they got bacteria.
Enrofloxacin can help.
Reduce temperature below 82'F.
Nice fish. :)

[zchauvin]

Mauro maybe you should give it a few days before you jump to medication, if they are fighting as much as you say during the day perhaps they continue into the night? When I had my wilds they would dart here and there also but they were fine, and in all honesty your wilds looked very healthy when I visited. You have to remember you have 7 large fish in the 48" area with two pair on each side. Any amount of aggression could cause the others to try and escape causing them to dart.

[DiscusBR]

Thank you for the feedback, guys. I decided to just intensify water changes and wait. There was no darting yesterday, which is a good sign.

[jawfish]

I hope that will solve the issue of darting. Mauro is their a nitrate treshold related to the darting ?

[DiscusBR]

I hope that will solve the issue of darting. Mauro is their a nitrate treshold related to the darting ?

Last time I slacked with WCs nitrates went very high (40ppm). I am now doing at least two 65% WCs per week and got it under control, although I should confess that I have not measured nitrates lately.

Time for an update. I got rid of all the fish that were in the 48g community tank to set it up for one of the pairs. I only kept a wild imbellis pair from that tank and got a 10g for them. It is now my 4yr old daughter's tank and she is very excited about it :) Yesterday was moving day and things did not go very well. First, I was stupid enough to put the two bettas in small cups while setting up their tank. After having them for a long time in a 48g tank it is not a surprise that they ended up jumping. I don't know how long they were in the floor, but the female looks fine and the male looks quite beaten up. Hopefully they will both recover. Then, when moving the pair to the 48g they got very scared and started darting everywhere. They both have some bad scratches and female is still hiding behind the sponge filter, breathing heavily. I assume it is normal that pairs, especially wilds, might not take very well the experience of being netted and thrown in a new environment. Am I right? Hopefully they will settle soon.

[rickztahone]

Really? I have read several threads here reporting problems with heaters.

Bad development. I was going to bed when there was a huge commotion in the tank. The discus started darting again :(

Oh well... I will start a new round of formalin treatment tomorrow, unless you guys have a different advice.
I meant Hydor heaters specifically, in case you were referring to heaters in general.


Mauro maybe you should give it a few days before you jump to medication, if they are fighting as much as you say during the day perhaps they continue into the night? When I had my wilds they would dart here and there also but they were fine, and in all honesty your wilds looked very healthy when I visited. You have to remember you have 7 large fish in the 48" area with two pair on each side. Any amount of aggression could cause the others to try and escape causing them to dart.

Good advice IMHO. Observe for a while unless you actually saw it whirrling.

[jawfish]

How is the pair doing Mauro ?

Did they get over the move and settled down or are they still hiding ?

[DiscusBR]

I meant Hydor heaters specifically, in case you were referring to heaters in general.

Oh, got it. Always saw good reviews, but had this bad experience. I have another one that is working fine so far.


Good advice IMHO. Observe for a while unless you actually saw it whirrling.

I followed the advice. No medication, just clean water.


How is the pair doing Mauro ?

Did they get over the move and settled down or are they still hiding ?

The pair still has not settled down. The male is fine, goes out more often and has good colors. But the female continues to hide behind the sponge filter most of the time and is quite dark. I don't think she is sick, though. Both have been eating. I am assuming that she was traumatized with the move and is still adapting to a completely new environment (bare bottom tank with no sand and no driftwood). I hope I am right. I will give the female some more time and hopefully she will settle down.

Everything looks fine in the 75g with the other 5 wild discus. The Cuipeua-Uatuma pair keeps spawning every week in the driftwood, but the eggs gradually disappear after a few days. I might try to put a breeding cone and a divider in the tank to see what happens.

[Second Hand Pat]

Mauro, try placing a thin layer of sand in with the pair and see if that helps settle the female. You can always siphon it out.
Pat

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, try placing a thin layer of sand in with the pair and see if that helps settle the female. You can always siphon it out.
Pat

That is a good idea, Pat. I am going to try to get some PFS tomorrow.

[DiscusBR]

Bad news. Today in the morning I heard a loud noise and water splashing. The pair in the 48g has started darting and they knocked out the breeding cone. I found both very dark and breathing heavily. The male has bruises and I can't see the female very well because she is hiding. I immediately did a big WC and started a formalin treatment. Bummer...

[jmf3460]

do you have heater malfunction? or some other type of electric shock that could be going through your tanks??

[DiscusBR]

do you have heater malfunction? or some other type of electric shock that could be going through your tanks??

I only have a Eheim Jager heater, which is quite reliable.

I have opened a thread in the Emergency Room. Please go there to provide advice if you have any:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?119778-Wild-pair-in-bad-shape-darting&p=1156998#post1156998

Thank you in advance.

[DiscusBR]

On a lighter note: I used egg crate to put a divider in the 75g to separate the other pair from the other Cuipeuas. The female immediately started cleaning the driftwood and shimming. I think I will have another spawn today. I hope they will keep the eggs this time.

[Second Hand Pat]

Nice to have a silver lining Mauro. Question for you on your pairs. Are the males of both pairs the Uatuma?
Pat

[DiscusBR]

Nice to have a silver lining Mauro. Question for you on your pairs. Are the males of both pairs the Uatuma?
Pat

Both Uatumas are girls :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Both Uatumas are girls :)

Well, you blew a hole in that idea.
Pat

[DiscusBR]

The bad side: came home to find the female Uatuma lying on the bottom, breathing hard, completely dark. Looks like she is dying. The male is better, although also clearly stressed. I followed Pat's advice, turned off the lights and covered the tank with a blanket. Will see...

The good side: sure enough, the Cuipeua-Uatuma pair in the 75g has spawned again.

[DiscusBR]

The female Uatuma Red has died. The male looks bad. A major setback :(

[Discus-n00b]

I hate hearing this. I've been through the same thing and it is incredibly frustrating. I wish there were a fix for this as it seems to be becoming a common problem.

[jmf3460]

So sorry to hear this Mauro. I really feel something is going on to cause this darting/whirling other than the new scenery. Its a weird disease and you are having such a bad time with it. Are you tanks near windows, or are their windows in the room with your tank that maybe the fish can see either people walking by or cars driving by?

[Discus Origins]

The bad side: came home to find the female Uatuma lying on the bottom, breathing hard, completely dark. Looks like she is dying. The male is better, although also clearly stressed. I followed Pat's advice, turned off the lights and covered the tank with a blanket. Will see...

The good side: sure enough, the Cuipeua-Uatuma pair in the 75g has spawned again.


The female Uatuma Red has died. The male looks bad. A major setback :(

Mauro, I re-read a couple pages of posts. Did you move this pair into the 48g without sterilizing the tank/equipment first? I may be wrong but it seems like you took the original fish out of the 48g and then moved the pair in same day?

Are the discus in the 75g showing signs of whirling? It doesn't seem to be happening in that tank if the pair is still spawning.

[DiscusBR]

I hate hearing this. I've been through the same thing and it is incredibly frustrating. I wish there were a fix for this as it seems to be becoming a common problem.

I wish someone would do more research on discus diseases. Does anyone know of academic research on the subject? I guess there would not be much funding for it.


So sorry to hear this Mauro. I really feel something is going on to cause this darting/whirling other than the new scenery. Its a weird disease and you are having such a bad time with it. Are you tanks near windows, or are their windows in the room with your tank that maybe the fish can see either people walking by or cars driving by?

The tanks are near the window but they can't see anything outside. They only see the movement in the living room.


Mauro, I re-read a couple pages of posts. Did you move this pair into the 48g without sterilizing the tank/equipment first? I may be wrong but it seems like you took the original fish out of the 48g and then moved the pair in same day?

Yes, Mark, I moved the pair to the tank a few days later without sterilizing it first. I am paying the price, I guess.


Are the discus in the 75g showing signs of whirling? It doesn't seem to be happening in that tank if the pair is still spawning.

The 5 discus in the 75g look fine and one pair is currently breeding in the tank.

[Ryan]

It sounds to me like maybe they picked up something in the new tank, if it wasn't sterilized.

You haven't used salt, have you? You cannot mix salt and formalin if I remember correctly.

[alron2]

You haven't used salt, have you? You cannot mix salt and formalin if I remember correctly.

I believe this is inncorrect since Formalin is usedto treat salt water fish.

Ron

[lkleung007]

Sorry for your loss Mauro...this really sucks!! Nonetheless, your other wilds are absolutely gorgeous.

I have mixed salt and formalin in the past without problems. I also have a wild that was dark and not eating...after the three rounds of PP and three rounds of formalin... the wild is looking a lot better. I also found that high heat works well as long as it is not bacterial in nature.

Best Regards, Lester

[DiscusBR]

Thank you, folks. I woke up this morning to find the male dead. So I lost 3 of the the 8 wild discus that I got this year. I feel defeated and I regret the mistakes, including the initiative of moving the pair to a tank that had not been sterilized. I just wanted to take advantage of a canister filter and a sponge filter that were fully cycled. Although nobody knows what triggers this terrible disease.

I am waiting know to see I get wigglers so that I can confirm the other pair.

[Disgirl]

Mauro, I received your pm but your inbox is full and I can't reply there. I understand and am very sorry you lost the fish. Best wishes for your remaining fish.
Barb

[jawfish]

Sorry to hear about this turn of event Mauro.

I hope you do get wrigglers from the other pair.

Fred

[zchauvin]

Sorry to hear Mauro, hopefully all goes well with the other pair!

[rickztahone]

That is sad news Mauro :(. Such a shame. As far as discus disease research goes, there are many universities that are open to receiving specimens that have diseases and they can help identify it. There are steps and procedures you must follow and I do not believe this service is pro-bono, but just putting it out there for you.

[DiscusBR]

Thank you everyone for the words of support. Good news in such sad context: I got wigglers in the driftwood after I put a divider in the 75g. The other Cuipeua-Uatuma Red pair is therefore confirmed :) It is a small batch, but it is nice to confirm the pair.

[rickztahone]

Thank you everyone for the words of support. Good news in such sad context: I got wigglers in the driftwood after I put a divider in the 75g. The other Cuipeua-Uatuma Red pair is therefore confirmed :) It is a small batch, but it is nice to confirm the pair.

Cup half full right? Glad to hear that Mauro. Do you plan on seperating them and breeding? Is that what happened to the previous pair that just passed?

[DiscusBR]

Cup half full right? Glad to hear that Mauro. Do you plan on seperating them and breeding? Is that what happened to the previous pair that just passed?

Yes, I do hope to succeed in breeding and in raising a batch of juvies. But I have no plan to move the pair from the 75g. After the recent tragic events with the other pair, I get terrified with the idea of changing anything or moving them anywhere The other pair perished only nine days after I transferred them to the 48g tank. Let's see what will happen with this spawn. The fry might pass through the egg crate and end up eaten in the other side of the tank. Will see...

[jawfish]

One good news Mauro... you could always use a sheet of Poret foam as divider if you do not wish to move the parents for a while.

Cheers Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Mauro, congrats on the wigglers. That is super news and a silver lining to the recent events. Poret foam makes an excellent tank divider if you want to try it as Fred suggests. That is what I used to separate my pairs in the 240 from the rest of the fish.
Pat

[rickztahone]

Yes, I do hope to succeed in breeding and in raising a batch of juvies. But I have no plan to move the pair from the 75g. After the recent tragic events with the other pair, I get terrified with the idea of changing anything or moving them anywhere The other pair perished only nine days after I transferred them to the 48g tank. Let's see what will happen with this spawn. The fry might pass through the egg crate and end up eaten in the other side of the tank. Will see...

yup, go with the poret foam like others suggested. Egg crate only and the other side inhabitants will have some fresh sushi :)

[DiscusBR]

Thank you, everyone. I did not have time in the last days to search for poret foam, so the tank continues to be divided by egg crate only. Today the wigglers started to become free swimmers. In the afternoon, parents were working hard, grabbing the wigglers from the bottom and putting them back in the driftwood. I went out and came home 4 hours later. Still no attachment. Most of the wigglers left are in the bottom and a few of them are in the wood. I am planning to leave the lights on at night to help with the attachment process, but it does not look like it will happen. I assume I can leave the lights on at night, right?

I am not too worried if this spawning is not succesful because in four days I leave for a 10-day trip.

In the meantime, the wild Imbellis betta pair in my daughter's new 10 gallon apparently got busy. I saw some dancing activity lately and to my surprise I saw some eggs falling from the bubble nest today and the male putting them back. I have never tried betta spawning before, so I might wait until I come back from my trip to learn more about it.

[rickztahone]

You can leave the lights on all night, no problem. Your concern about the wigglers may be moot, because the chances of the wrigglers not making their way over to the other side of the eggrate is practically 0. I'd fix everything up right when you get back. Enjoy your trip.

[DiscusBR]

You can leave the lights on all night, no problem. Your concern about the wigglers may be moot, because the chances of the wrigglers not making their way over to the other side of the eggrate is practically 0. I'd fix everything up right when you get back. Enjoy your trip.

Thank you, Rick. Will do that.

Does it often happen that wigglers will fall to the bottom and take several hours to attach? I also don't think it will happen because the male is not dark as he was in the afternoon. As if he has given up. By the way, the pair is not attending to the wigglers anymore.

The Imbellis have definetely spawned. I have wigglers in the 10g. Contrary to discus, they are white instead of dark. Is that correct? Any betta breeders out there?

[scruffy89801]

I cant see the video:(

[DiscusBR]

I cant see the video:(

There is no new video. I have been too busy lately to make and upload one.

[rickztahone]

The pair may be winding up to lay eggs again. Give them time together and strengthen their bond.

Can't help you with the betas

[DiscusBR]

Can't help you with the betas

No problem. I confirmed that betta wigglers are transparent and that I did get a spawn. I read that wild bettas are not hard to breed. I will try when I return from my trip.


The pair may be winding up to lay eggs again. Give them time together and strengthen their bond.

I did not get any attachment. But no worries. The pair will continue to bond and get better at it. It is also good because it allows me to feed the fish heavily and do massive WCs before my 10-day trip. So this will be my last update for a while. I am leaving Thursday morning and will be back on the 30th.

Take care everyone.

[DiscusBR]

Hi everyone,

So, I came back after a 9-day trip today and was happy to find my 5 remaining wilds doing well. They went through eleven days with no feeding and nine days with no water changes. One more piece of evidence that no feeding is the way to go during vacations.

In my 10g tank, I was surprised to see that at least 2 fry survived from my wild betta Imbellis pair's spawn. Most likely they will be stunted because of little food in their first two weeks. But it is nice to see my first ever better spawn.

[DiscusBR]

New developments. The confirmed pair among the 5 remaining wilds in the 75g tank did not show much spawning activity in the last two weeks, but few days ago the Uatuma Red female laid a huge number of eggs in the cone. Here is a new video of the tank. I made a tank divider to separate the pair using egg crate and foam. There isn't much lighting in the area where the pair is and therefore it is difficult to see the beautiful red color of the Uatuma female. And it is also not possible to see the eggs because they are on the back of the cone. But you can have an idea.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gwyp1jA2tE

Another new development: I got two Laranjal Red discus from John (snookn21) to replace the pair I lost. After disinfecting the 48g tank where my previous confirmed pair perished, I ordered these 2 fish and some corydoras to complete my group of wilds. They have been in the QT tank only for one week and are still adapting. One of them is still not eating and is more lethargic. I will keep observing them and then decide if I will medicate. Here is a video of the Laranjals:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upKnWdbQdms

On non-discus related news: my wild Imbellis betta pair spawned again and I have a quite significant number of fry. Unfortunately, the male jumped through a small opening in the tank and I lost him. But it will be exciting to see what will become of the fry.

As you can see, I will be quite busy soon if everything goes well.

[Second Hand Pat]

They are beautiful Mauro and hope the pair goes the distance for you. :) The new guys are very nice.
Pat

[Keith Perkins]

Good luck Mauro, still pulling for you and all your adventures.

[DiscusBR]

Thank you for the good wishes, Pat and Keith. It looks promising. I got wigglers.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thank you for the good wishes, Pat and Keith. It looks promising. I got wigglers.

That is super news Mauro. I bet they go all the way.
Pat

[DiscusBR]

That is super news Mauro. I bet they go all the way.
Pat

I hope so. Last time I got no attachments. Will see if it works this time.

[DiscusBR]

Here we go again...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdUwS9Kj-BA

Hopefully there will be attachment this time.

[Keith Perkins]

Que the music from jeopardy.

[DiscusBR]

Que the music from jeopardy.

:confused:

[Second Hand Pat]

Mauro, this just never gets old. Crossing fingers for ya :)
Pat

[rickztahone]

:confused:

a reference to Jeopardy, as in, "it is now a waiting game"

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, this just never gets old. Crossing fingers for ya :)
Pat

I know! What a beautiful dance. Breeding discus is definitely one the highlights of this hobby.


a reference to Jeopardy, as in, "it is now a waiting game"

Oh, I see :)

[Keith Perkins]

a reference to Jeopardy, as in, "it is now a waiting game"

And the suspense, don't forget the suspense. :D

Sorry Mauro, maybe music from final Jeopardy would have been clearer.

Your fish certainly know how to keep things interesting around here.

[DiscusBR]

And the suspense, don't forget the suspense. :D

Sorry Mauro, maybe music from final Jeopardy would have been clearer.

Your fish certainly know how to keep things interesting around here.

Thank you, Keith. But they want to extend the suspense. The eggs disappeared :(

[khooyang]

Sad to hear that. Do you want to cover the eggs like Discus Hans?

[DiscusBR]

Sad to hear that. Do you want to cover the eggs like Discus Hans?

I am considering that. If the fail one more time I will put a mash around the cone.

[DiscusBR]

The news: the good and the bad.

So I still have a divider in the 75g tank, with the Cuipueau-Uatuma pair in one side and the 3 remaining Cuipeuas in the other. The good news: After a WC this afternoon today, the pair got busy and spawned again. Let' see if there will be attachment this time...

Now the bad news: of the 3 Cuipeuas in the other side, one started darting (did it twice in the last two hours). I might never be free of this whirling disease problem :(

Finally, in the 48g QT where I keep the 2 Laranjals I got from John, one is doing well and coloring nicely. But the other is still darker and its fins are often clamped. I might end up in the disease section.

Always ups and downs...

[DiscusBR]

Update about the last 8 days. The Cuipeua that started darting only got worse. The following day it was laying on the bottom, barely breathing. I was forced to cull it. Very sad :( Here is an older pic of the fish I just lost:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/dd%20005_zpseijguzda.jpg

Only this year I lost 4 wilds for the whirling disease. Not a got come back to the hobby, I should say. I had thoughts of giving up, but decided to keep going.

On a brighter note: the pair spawned again today. They had done it last week, but ate the eggs again. So this time I am using a mesh over the cone. Here is the pair today after the spawn:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/8jul15%20001_zpsvmeasvmg.jpg

And here is mom attending to the eggs:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/8jul15%20003_zpshuftqpee.jpg

Then I put the mesh over the cone:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/8jul15%20007_zpsusvqj95v.jpg

No, they are not drinking while breeding. The goal of the glass on the top of the mesh is to keep it in place. The only mesh I found at Home Depot floats, so this was my solution.

The other two Cuipeuas in the other side of the tank are doing well:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/8jul15%20012_zps6sydnrik.jpg

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/8jul15%20022_zpsigjizxo4.jpg

In my 48g quarantine tank, the situation with the two Laranjal discus I bought from John continues basically the same. One is doing well and coloring up nicely:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/8jul15%20026_zpstnn8mwrs.jpg

The other one often has clamped fins and is more lethargic:

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m538/DiscusBrazil/8jul15%20025_zpsdonic689.jpg

I might need to treat this tank soon.

So these are the news. I have a question: When should I remove the mesh? Right after I get wigglers?

[sridharp77]

My two cents ...

This is my experience while treating the Whirling disease. I had wild fishes in two tanks showing the symptoms. The interesting thing i noted is that at a time only one fish was showing the symptom. The first tank i lost two of them and then on checking with lot of folks I got the following suggestion. This was from a reputed breeder in Asia (I was told not to put his name anywhere ). He asked me to use tetracycline and Metronidazole. The dosage for both is 750 mg per 100 liters of water. In case the fishes still show the symptoms after 24 hrs of treatment increase the dosage to 1gm per 100 liters. As a last resort i tried it in both my tanks and since then for the last one month the fishes have not shown the symptoms. He specifically told me not to use light during the treatment. Also keep the temperature at 31 degrees. The treatment was suggested for 6 days and after 24 hrs do 25% water and dose the medicines appropriately. It worked for me. So in the worst case you may want to give it a try. Also he was suggesting that I should be treating all the fishes in the tank and not only the fish that was showing the symptoms.

[DiscusBR]

My two cents ...

This is my experience while treating the Whirling disease. I had wild fishes in two tanks showing the symptoms. The interesting thing i noted is that at a time only one fish was showing the symptom. The first tank i lost two of them and then on checking with lot of folks I got the following suggestion. This was from a reputed breeder in Asia (I was told not to put his name anywhere ). He asked me to use tetracycline and Metronidazole. The dosage for both is 750 mg per 100 liters of water. In case the fishes still show the symptoms after 24 hrs of treatment increase the dosage to 1gm per 100 liters. As a last resort i tried it in both my tanks and since then for the last one month the fishes have not shown the symptoms. He specifically told me not to use light during the treatment. Also keep the temperature at 31 degrees. The treatment was suggested for 6 days and after 24 hrs do 25% water and dose the medicines appropriately. It worked for me. So in the worst case you may want to give it a try. Also he was suggesting that I should be treating all the fishes in the tank and not only the fish that was showing the symptoms.

Thanks a lot for sharing the details of this treatment. Sounds good. I might try it soon in my QT tank, as soon as I get some extra time with family and work.

So, folks, when do I take the mesh out of the tank? As soon as I get wigglers?

[Discus Origins]

Mauro, as soon as the fry attach to the parents you can take the mesh out. That will no longer be necessary. If parents eat the fry then you may want to try artificially raising the next spawn.

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, as soon as the fry attach to the parents you can take the mesh out. That will no longer be necessary. If parents eat the fry then you may want to try artificially raising the next spawn.

Thank you, Mark. I was thinking that the parents would not be able to "spit" the wigglers back to the cone if there is a mesh. Nice to know that I can leave the mesh there until attachment.

[jawfish]

Sorry to hear about your lose again Mauro. The remaining Cuipeua, look good.

I hope you keep going, that pair laying eggs for you is really nice... Yes they will spit them back through the mesh, its almost as if there were no mesh. I remove the mesh when they are free swimming.

Cheers,

Fred

[rickztahone]

Man Mauro, you have not had great luck lately with the whirling disease. I hope you are a "cub half full" type of guy and hopefully these pairs can be successful for you and soon you will be swimming in discus :)

[DiscusBR]

Sorry to hear about your lose again Mauro. The remaining Cuipeua, look good.

Thank you.


I hope you keep going, that pair laying eggs for you is really nice...

Yes, I love the pair. I am not going to give up, but I am considering keeping the pair and selling the other discus. The setbacks have been kind of overwhelming ...


Yes they will spit them back through the mesh, its almost as if there were no mesh. I remove the mesh when they are free swimming.

Thanks.


Man Mauro, you have not had great luck lately with the whirling disease. I hope you are a "cub half full" type of guy and hopefully these pairs can be successful for you and soon you will be swimming in discus :)

Thank you, I do see breeding as "making up" for the fish I lost. But as I said, I am now considering keeping only the pair. I am currently having more success and fun raising my batch of wild Imbellis betta fry than with the wilds :(

By the way, I never got wiggles from the last spawn, which is weird. May be the male did not fertilize the eggs. I will try again.

[DiscusBR]

Speaking of trying again, the pair is spawning right at this minute. I never get tired of watching these beautiful and elegant movements. Hopefully things will work this time. I will let them finish the job. Last time i think I put the mesh too early because I was afraid they would eat the eggs. This time I will make sure the male will make all the runs he needs before putting the mesh in place :) Wish me good luck.

[rickztahone]

Speaking of trying again, the pair is spawning right at this minute. I never get tired of watching these beautiful and elegant movements. Hopefully things will work this time. I will let them finish the job. Last time i think I put the mesh too early because I was afraid they would eat the eggs. This time I will make sure the male will make all the runs he needs before putting the mesh in place :) Wish me good luck.

Good luck Mauro! Record the wonderful grace of these creatures during thier "dance" :)